{ "version": "https://jsonfeed.org/version/1.1", "user_comment": "This feed allows you to read the posts from this site in any feed reader that supports the JSON Feed format. To add this feed to your reader, copy the following URL -- https://wptavern.com/feed/json -- and add it your reader.", "next_url": "https://wptavern.com/feed/json?paged=2", "home_page_url": "https://wptavern.com", "feed_url": "https://wptavern.com/feed/json", "language": "en-US", "title": "WP Tavern", "description": "WordPress News \u2014 Free as in Beer.", "icon": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/cropped-tavern-favicon.png", "items": [ { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149617", "url": "https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-16-7-introduces-font-management", "title": "Gutenberg 16.7 Introduces Font Management", "content_html": "\n

Gutenberg 16.7 was released this week, packed with several features that are headlining the upcoming WordPress 6.4 release. This will be the last plugin release that will be rolled into the next version of WordPress.

\n\n\n\n

Font management with the new font library is now available for testing in the plugin. These features standardize a way to add font collections to WordPress’ new font library, so plugin authors can register lists of fonts and users can install the ones they want. It also enables font foundries to create their own WordPress plugins to provide access to their fonts.

\n\n\n\n

The\u00a0Font Library\u00a0manages fonts independently of a site’s active theme, allowing users to install, remove, and activate fonts from various sources in WordPress. This works in a similar way to the Media Library.

\n\n\n\n

After updating to Gutenberg 16.7, users can navigate to Styles > Typography to manage fonts.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

From there, users can launch the Font Library, which loads in a popup screen, and browse all of the installed fonts. A Google Fonts tab allows for installing additional fonts that will be loaded locally from the user’s server. This gives site editors more freedom in selecting the typography for their websites instead of relying on a theme or plugin to provide font options.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

Gutenberg 16.7 also brings several important enhancements to patterns. Users can now import and export patterns as JSON files from the Patterns screen, making it easier to share patterns to other WordPress sites.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

The “My Patterns” category designation has also been reinstated to the post editor’s inserter, based on feedback after it had been removed.

\n\n\n\n

Inside the the inserter in the post editor, pattern filters have been relocated to a dropdown at the top of the pattern list panel, along with a sticky header to help with navigation.

\n\n\n\n

Other notable highlights of Gutenberg 16.7 include the following:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Gutenberg 16.7 includes 331 pull requests from 88 contributors. For more details on all the enhancements, bug fixes, accessibility, performance, code quality, testing, and tooling improvements, check out the full changelog in the release post.

\n", "content_text": "Gutenberg 16.7 was released this week, packed with several features that are headlining the upcoming WordPress 6.4 release. This will be the last plugin release that will be rolled into the next version of WordPress. \n\n\n\nFont management with the new font library is now available for testing in the plugin. These features standardize a way to add font collections to WordPress’ new font library, so plugin authors can register lists of fonts and users can install the ones they want. It also enables font foundries to create their own WordPress plugins to provide access to their fonts.\n\n\n\nThe\u00a0Font Library\u00a0manages fonts independently of a site’s active theme, allowing users to install, remove, and activate fonts from various sources in WordPress. This works in a similar way to the Media Library.\n\n\n\nAfter updating to Gutenberg 16.7, users can navigate to Styles > Typography to manage fonts. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFrom there, users can launch the Font Library, which loads in a popup screen, and browse all of the installed fonts. A Google Fonts tab allows for installing additional fonts that will be loaded locally from the user’s server. This gives site editors more freedom in selecting the typography for their websites instead of relying on a theme or plugin to provide font options.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nGutenberg 16.7 also brings several important enhancements to patterns. Users can now import and export patterns as JSON files from the Patterns screen, making it easier to share patterns to other WordPress sites. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe “My Patterns” category designation has also been reinstated to the post editor’s inserter, based on feedback after it had been removed.\n\n\n\nInside the the inserter in the post editor, pattern filters have been relocated to a dropdown at the top of the pattern list panel, along with a sticky header to help with navigation.\n\n\n\nOther notable highlights of Gutenberg 16.7 include the following: \n\n\n\n\nGroup blocks can now have custom names, making it easier to know what they are in the List View\n\n\n\n\u00a0New Social Link icon for the X service (formerly known as Twitter)\n\n\n\nNew ability to toggle \u2018nofollow\u2019 setting for inline links (rich text only)\n\n\n\nAdd aspect ratio to image placeholder\n\n\n\nImage block: Revise lightbox UI to remove \u2018behaviors\u2019\n\n\n\nImage block: UI updates for the image lightbox (redo)\n\n\n\n\nGutenberg 16.7 includes 331 pull requests from 88 contributors. For more details on all the enhancements, bug fixes, accessibility, performance, code quality, testing, and tooling improvements, check out the full changelog in the release post.", "date_published": "2023-09-29T18:15:38-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-29T18:15:40-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/letters.jpg", "tags": [ "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149624", "url": "https://wptavern.com/ollie-theme-faces-pushback-from-wordpress-theme-review-team", "title": "Ollie Theme Faces Pushback from WordPress Theme Review Team", "content_html": "\n

Mike McAlister, creator of the\u00a0free Ollie theme,\u00a0has been working towards getting his theme approved for hosting on WordPress.org. Ollie went into public beta in April 2023 and gained momentum over the next few months when McAlister previewed the theme’s new onboarding wizard.

\n\n\n\n

WordPress users have been slow to adopt the block editor and block themes by extension. In 2022, only 54% of respondents to WordPress’ annual survey have used the block editor, four years after it was introduced. Block themes have trickled into the official directory, far behind the lofty goals set for their expansion. The sluggish movement towards block-based sites has led some to speculate on whether there will ever be a market for commercial block themes.

\n\n\n\n

Ollie was designed to make onboarding to a block theme easier and the Site Editor more approachable, so that users don’t have to start from a blank canvas. The theme’s demo boasts “a 40-hr head start” on setting up a new WordPress website, thanks in part to dozens of patterns for fast page building. Ollie’s built-in onboarding experience aims to drastically reduce the amount of time users spend getting started.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

After receiving significant pushback from the Theme Review team during Ollie’s three weeks in the queue, McAlister has put up a poll requesting feedback on how he should proceed.

\n\n\n\n
\n

After a very rocky (and downright combative) theme review process at https://t.co/SPJ2MEtIlL, I'm not sure if it's the right place for our @BuildWithOllie project.

I'm torn and would love your input. More context below and a poll at the end.

— Mike McAlister \"\ud83e\uddd1\u200d\ud83d\ude80\" (@mikemcalister) September 28, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Although provisionally approved by veteran theme reviewer Justin Tadlock, who said the onboarding functionality should be allowed until WordPress core offers a standard solution, Ollie was met with heavy criticism from other members of the team.

\n\n\n\n

“The setup wizard is plugin territory,” UXL Themes founder and theme reviewer Andrew Starr\u00a0said. “Why not make this as a plugin that would work with any block theme? A plugin could be inspiration or a nudge to improve the core experience.”

\n\n\n\n

McAlister responded to this question in the Trac ticket for the review and in posts on X. He maintains that a plugin is a “far worse experience for the end user” and for his team as the maintainers of the product. Also, since the plugin review queue has 1,249\u00a0plugins awaiting review with developers waiting an average of 98 days for an initial review, a plugin for Ollie’s onboarding experience would likely not be live until next year.

\n\n\n\n

“As a compromise and show of good faith, I’ve chopped down the onboarding wizard to a fraction of what it was,” he said. “No dice. Still, it continues to be a highly contentious issue that is causing folks to publicly question my intentions and integrity. Disheartening to say the least.”

\n\n\n\n

Automattic-sponsored contributor Justin Tadlock, who helped author the guidelines in question many years ago and who has historically been widely esteemed for his impeccable judgment in regards to the grey areas of content creation in themes and the necessity of preserving data portability, weighed in on the ticket after performing the initial review:

\n\n\n\n
\n

As someone who co-wrote the original guideline for settings to use the customizer, I can say with 100% certainty that we never meant that to be a hard line drawn in the sand. The team reps can and have always had the capability to mark a theme as a “special case” (there’s even a tag for this in the backend, or there was when I was a rep). And there are themes where we felt like the functionality was unique enough to give it a bit of wiggle room. That was a position that we took when we wrote the “settings must be in the customizer” guideline. While I’m no longer one of the team reps, I feel like this settings page feature is unique enough to mark as a “special case.”

\n\n\n\n

With block themes, some things must be reevaluated because the customizer is not available by default and is not an expected part of the block theme experience. In fact, this guideline is very specific to classic themes. Nothing has been written yet for block themes. Whether that’s a good thing, I don’t know. This could be a good moment for experimentation.

\n\n\n\n

I disagree that the settings page should be packaged as a companion plugin. That defeats the purpose of its inclusion in the theme, and it would create an additional hurdle for the users who would benefit the most from this feature.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Yoast-sponsored contributor Carolina Nymark contends that allowing this onboarding experience will set a precedent that erodes the standard the team is trying to uphold for the ecosystem of themes hosted on WordPress.org and gives Ollie an unfair commercial advantage:

\n\n\n\n
\n

“That settings pages are not allowed is in many ways unrelated to the customizer. And if we really want to angle it that way, it would be way easier to re-enable the customizer link in the theme.

\n\n\n\n

It is about having a standard that is easy for all theme authors to use and easy to review.
It is about not opening up the reviews to another situation with incredibly difficult and time consuming reviews of code that the theme developers themselves don’t understand because they copy-pasted it and managed to cause all sorts of errors and security issues.
Where that feature “lives”, in the customizer or on another page, is not the issue.

\n\n\n\n

I would like everyone to also consider that the Site Editor is not at all far away from solving the problem with the initial template selection. It does not solve all onboarding steps, like getting to the Site Editor, but it is improving.

\n\n\n\n

Compare it with the use of TGMPA. There is a problem that needs solving and a solution has been agreed upon where the theme author and reviewers only need to adjust a few variables and text strings.

\n\n\n\n

If something similar could be reached here I would support it.

\n\n\n\n

This is not about a special case, because it is an unfair commercial advantage over other theme developers.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Ollie is a beautifully-designed multipurpose theme of the highest caliber, the likes of which WordPress.org doesn’t see very often. If expanding block theme adoption is an important goal, these are the kinds of experiences you want people building for WordPress users. It may be time to redefine theme guidelines based on the possibilities that the block editor enables, instead of saddling block themes with antiquated constraints for the sake of maintaining a more expedient review process.

\n\n\n\n

“Just because there are problems with onboarding it doesn’t mean that a theme, any theme, is the right tool just because one can put code in it,” Nymark said. “Plugins extend features, themes display content.”

\n\n\n\n

Given the amount of pushback from the Theme Review team, McAlister is now torn about removing everything “extra” to get Ollie in the directory for better distribution, or to keep the innovations in place and forego the directory in favor of independent distribution. So far, the results of his poll are overwhelmingly in favor of McAlister distributing the theme himself.

\n\n\n\n

“I\u2019m passionate about innovation and getting the most out of all the possibilities that modern WordPress affords us,” McAlister told the Tavern. “We were tasked to ‘Learn JavaScript Deeply’ not to remain where we\u2019ve been for so long, but to push the boundaries and scope out the future of WordPress and what\u2019s possible.

\n\n\n\n

“So we designed and developed Ollie\u2019s educational dashboard and onboarding wizard to help users get over some of the hurdles they\u2019ve been plagued with for so long when setting up a new site or switching to a new theme. We even designed it in a very core-inspired way to match the site editor to create a very cohesive experience. The feedback has been inspiring!”

\n\n\n\n

After posting about his experience with the Theme Review team, which McAlister characterized as “rocky (and downright combative),” the community following his work on Ollie over the past year has rallied around him with advice and support.

\n\n\n\n

“I am torn about this,” Joost de Valk commented on McAlister’s poll on X. “I feel WordPress needs these onboarding experiences. Very very much. Should it be in themes? Not sure. Should the theme repository block this stuff? I don\u2019t think so\u2026 we should be open to experimenting with this a bit more.”

\n\n\n\n

McAlister said that even as the theme’s creator, he is torn about the decision as well.

\n\n\n\n

“I built this as a good faith attempt to help people onboard into block themes and hopefully even help drive adoption,” he said. “My intentions are pure and steeped in 15 years of doing it ‘the WP way.’ It\u2019s an attempt to move the needle, worth a shot anyway.”

\n\n\n\n

“I always felt that onboarding like this should be part of Core,” Yoast-sponsored contributor Ari Stathopoulos commented. “The current experience for a newcomer to WP is not a good one. We have to start somewhere\u2026 if it\u2019s in themes, then so be it.”

\n\n\n\n

WordPress’ Theme Review team has a critical choice here, whether to stifle innovation and throw the book at one of the most highly anticipated block themes, or identify this as a special case where the author has the users’ best interests at heart.

\n\n\n\n

Many participants in the discussion on X encouraged McAlister to distribute his work independently, citing examples of other WordPress products that have found success in doing so. This would be an unfortunate loss for WordPress.org where the project is essentially shooting itself in the foot by clinging to outmoded guidelines in order to deny high quality block themes that are innovating to create a better user experience. In pursuit of a more robust offering of block themes, the last thing WordPress needs to do is chase away its trailblazers.

\n\n\n\n
\n

Generally speaking, given the amount of pure sh*t available in the .org repo, the fact that they wont welcome you with open arms just stinks.

Self distribute.

You've got something incredible here.

— Anthony (@ant_thedesigner) September 28, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

“Since this morning, there has been an overwhelming amount of feedback telling me to avoid the WordPress.org directory,” McAlister said. “I\u2019m kind of bummed by this because I think it says something about the directory that a lot of folks think but few want to say out loud.

\n\n\n\n

“Personally, I want the directory to succeed and be an inspiring and resourceful jump-off point for new WordPress users! It\u2019s the front page of our open source project, of our community. It should be a showcase of the finest our community has to offer. But today, I\u2019m disheartened and not sure if it\u2019s the place where I want to put some of my best work to date.”

\n", "content_text": "Mike McAlister, creator of the\u00a0free Ollie theme,\u00a0has been working towards getting his theme approved for hosting on WordPress.org. Ollie went into public beta in April 2023 and gained momentum over the next few months when McAlister previewed the theme’s new onboarding wizard.\n\n\n\nWordPress users have been slow to adopt the block editor and block themes by extension. In 2022, only 54% of respondents to WordPress’ annual survey have used the block editor, four years after it was introduced. Block themes have trickled into the official directory, far behind the lofty goals set for their expansion. The sluggish movement towards block-based sites has led some to speculate on whether there will ever be a market for commercial block themes.\n\n\n\nOllie was designed to make onboarding to a block theme easier and the Site Editor more approachable, so that users don’t have to start from a blank canvas. The theme’s demo boasts “a 40-hr head start” on setting up a new WordPress website, thanks in part to dozens of patterns for fast page building. Ollie’s built-in onboarding experience aims to drastically reduce the amount of time users spend getting started.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAfter receiving significant pushback from the Theme Review team during Ollie’s three weeks in the queue, McAlister has put up a poll requesting feedback on how he should proceed.\n\n\n\n\nAfter a very rocky (and downright combative) theme review process at https://t.co/SPJ2MEtIlL, I'm not sure if it's the right place for our @BuildWithOllie project. I'm torn and would love your input. More context below and a poll at the end.— Mike McAlister (@mikemcalister) September 28, 2023\n\n\n\n\nAlthough provisionally approved by veteran theme reviewer Justin Tadlock, who said the onboarding functionality should be allowed until WordPress core offers a standard solution, Ollie was met with heavy criticism from other members of the team.\n\n\n\n“The setup wizard is plugin territory,” UXL Themes founder and theme reviewer Andrew Starr\u00a0said. “Why not make this as a plugin that would work with any block theme? A plugin could be inspiration or a nudge to improve the core experience.”\n\n\n\nMcAlister responded to this question in the Trac ticket for the review and in posts on X. He maintains that a plugin is a “far worse experience for the end user” and for his team as the maintainers of the product. Also, since the plugin review queue has 1,249\u00a0plugins awaiting review with developers waiting an average of 98 days for an initial review, a plugin for Ollie’s onboarding experience would likely not be live until next year.\n\n\n\n“As a compromise and show of good faith, I’ve chopped down the onboarding wizard to a fraction of what it was,” he said. “No dice. Still, it continues to be a highly contentious issue that is causing folks to publicly question my intentions and integrity. Disheartening to say the least.”\n\n\n\nAutomattic-sponsored contributor Justin Tadlock, who helped author the guidelines in question many years ago and who has historically been widely esteemed for his impeccable judgment in regards to the grey areas of content creation in themes and the necessity of preserving data portability, weighed in on the ticket after performing the initial review:\n\n\n\n\nAs someone who co-wrote the original guideline for settings to use the customizer, I can say with 100% certainty that we never meant that to be a hard line drawn in the sand. The team reps can and have always had the capability to mark a theme as a “special case” (there’s even a tag for this in the backend, or there was when I was a rep). And there are themes where we felt like the functionality was unique enough to give it a bit of wiggle room. That was a position that we took when we wrote the “settings must be in the customizer” guideline. While I’m no longer one of the team reps, I feel like this settings page feature is unique enough to mark as a “special case.”\n\n\n\nWith block themes, some things must be reevaluated because the customizer is not available by default and is not an expected part of the block theme experience. In fact, this guideline is very specific to classic themes. Nothing has been written yet for block themes. Whether that’s a good thing, I don’t know. This could be a good moment for experimentation.\n\n\n\nI disagree that the settings page should be packaged as a companion plugin. That defeats the purpose of its inclusion in the theme, and it would create an additional hurdle for the users who would benefit the most from this feature.\n\n\n\n\nYoast-sponsored contributor Carolina Nymark contends that allowing this onboarding experience will set a precedent that erodes the standard the team is trying to uphold for the ecosystem of themes hosted on WordPress.org and gives Ollie an unfair commercial advantage:\n\n\n\n\n“That settings pages are not allowed is in many ways unrelated to the customizer. And if we really want to angle it that way, it would be way easier to re-enable the customizer link in the theme.\n\n\n\nIt is about having a standard that is easy for all theme authors to use and easy to review.It is about not opening up the reviews to another situation with incredibly difficult and time consuming reviews of code that the theme developers themselves don’t understand because they copy-pasted it and managed to cause all sorts of errors and security issues.Where that feature “lives”, in the customizer or on another page, is not the issue.\n\n\n\nI would like everyone to also consider that the Site Editor is not at all far away from solving the problem with the initial template selection. It does not solve all onboarding steps, like getting to the Site Editor, but it is improving.\n\n\n\nCompare it with the use of TGMPA. There is a problem that needs solving and a solution has been agreed upon where the theme author and reviewers only need to adjust a few variables and text strings.\n\n\n\nIf something similar could be reached here I would support it.\n\n\n\nThis is not about a special case, because it is an unfair commercial advantage over other theme developers.\n\n\n\n\nOllie is a beautifully-designed multipurpose theme of the highest caliber, the likes of which WordPress.org doesn’t see very often. If expanding block theme adoption is an important goal, these are the kinds of experiences you want people building for WordPress users. It may be time to redefine theme guidelines based on the possibilities that the block editor enables, instead of saddling block themes with antiquated constraints for the sake of maintaining a more expedient review process.\n\n\n\n“Just because there are problems with onboarding it doesn’t mean that a theme, any theme, is the right tool just because one can put code in it,” Nymark said. “Plugins extend features, themes display content.”\n\n\n\nGiven the amount of pushback from the Theme Review team, McAlister is now torn about removing everything “extra” to get Ollie in the directory for better distribution, or to keep the innovations in place and forego the directory in favor of independent distribution. So far, the results of his poll are overwhelmingly in favor of McAlister distributing the theme himself. \n\n\n\n“I\u2019m passionate about innovation and getting the most out of all the possibilities that modern WordPress affords us,” McAlister told the Tavern. “We were tasked to ‘Learn JavaScript Deeply’ not to remain where we\u2019ve been for so long, but to push the boundaries and scope out the future of WordPress and what\u2019s possible. \n\n\n\n“So we designed and developed Ollie\u2019s educational dashboard and onboarding wizard to help users get over some of the hurdles they\u2019ve been plagued with for so long when setting up a new site or switching to a new theme. We even designed it in a very core-inspired way to match the site editor to create a very cohesive experience. The feedback has been inspiring!” \n\n\n\nAfter posting about his experience with the Theme Review team, which McAlister characterized as “rocky (and downright combative),” the community following his work on Ollie over the past year has rallied around him with advice and support.\n\n\n\n“I am torn about this,” Joost de Valk commented on McAlister’s poll on X. “I feel WordPress needs these onboarding experiences. Very very much. Should it be in themes? Not sure. Should the theme repository block this stuff? I don\u2019t think so\u2026 we should be open to experimenting with this a bit more.”\n\n\n\nMcAlister said that even as the theme’s creator, he is torn about the decision as well.\n\n\n\n“I built this as a good faith attempt to help people onboard into block themes and hopefully even help drive adoption,” he said. “My intentions are pure and steeped in 15 years of doing it ‘the WP way.’ It\u2019s an attempt to move the needle, worth a shot anyway.”\n\n\n\n“I always felt that onboarding like this should be part of Core,” Yoast-sponsored contributor Ari Stathopoulos commented. “The current experience for a newcomer to WP is not a good one. We have to start somewhere\u2026 if it\u2019s in themes, then so be it.”\n\n\n\nWordPress’ Theme Review team has a critical choice here, whether to stifle innovation and throw the book at one of the most highly anticipated block themes, or identify this as a special case where the author has the users’ best interests at heart. \n\n\n\nMany participants in the discussion on X encouraged McAlister to distribute his work independently, citing examples of other WordPress products that have found success in doing so. This would be an unfortunate loss for WordPress.org where the project is essentially shooting itself in the foot by clinging to outmoded guidelines in order to deny high quality block themes that are innovating to create a better user experience. In pursuit of a more robust offering of block themes, the last thing WordPress needs to do is chase away its trailblazers.\n\n\n\n\nGenerally speaking, given the amount of pure sh*t available in the .org repo, the fact that they wont welcome you with open arms just stinks.Self distribute.You've got something incredible here.— Anthony (@ant_thedesigner) September 28, 2023\n\n\n\n\n“Since this morning, there has been an overwhelming amount of feedback telling me to avoid the WordPress.org directory,” McAlister said. “I\u2019m kind of bummed by this because I think it says something about the directory that a lot of folks think but few want to say out loud. \n\n\n\n“Personally, I want the directory to succeed and be an inspiring and resourceful jump-off point for new WordPress users! It\u2019s the front page of our open source project, of our community. It should be a showcase of the finest our community has to offer. But today, I\u2019m disheartened and not sure if it\u2019s the place where I want to put some of my best work to date.”", "date_published": "2023-09-29T01:07:07-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-29T01:21:05-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/screenshot.png", "tags": [ "News", "Themes" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149557", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-opens-2023-annual-survey", "title": "WordPress Opens 2023 Annual Survey", "content_html": "\n

WordPress has launched its 2023 annual survey, which is open to the entire community, including users, site builders, plugin and theme authors, and contributors.

\n\n\n\n

The 2022 survey collected responses from roughly 3,400 people, including approximately 800 contributors, a decline in submissions from previous years. The 2022 survey introduced the Likert scale, a rating scale that quantitatively assesses opinions, attitudes, or behaviors. The total number of questions were reduced, with socio-economic questions mostly removed.

\n\n\n\n

WordPress is still evolving the survey format to get a better understanding of the community’s sentiments and values.

\n\n\n\n

“This year, like last year, the survey has undergone some improvements to the flow and question set,” Automattic-sponsored contributor Dan Soschin said. “A new platform is also being piloted, offering an updated interface, enhanced multi-lingual support, expanded analysis and visualization tools for the results, and more. The new platform also has built-in accessibility and privacy controls, ensuring the survey meets the diverse needs of the WordPress community.”

\n\n\n\n

The 2023 survey takes approximately 5-10 minutes to complete. It collects information on some basic demographics, various community involvements, preferred WordPress editor, how and why you are using WordPress, and more. Several questions allow the community to weigh in on the most frustrating aspects of WordPress, areas that need more attention, and whether or not the current WordPress roadmap reflects respondents’ needs and desires for the future of the project.

\n\n\n\n

In addition to English, the survey is available in nine widely-used languages, which participants can select from a drop-down menu at the top of the page. All the data collected in the survey will be anonymized and WordPress does not associate IP addresses or email addresses with the results.

\n", "content_text": "WordPress has launched its 2023 annual survey, which is open to the entire community, including users, site builders, plugin and theme authors, and contributors. \n\n\n\nThe 2022 survey collected responses from roughly 3,400 people, including approximately 800 contributors, a decline in submissions from previous years. The 2022 survey introduced the Likert scale, a rating scale that quantitatively assesses opinions, attitudes, or behaviors. The total number of questions were reduced, with socio-economic questions mostly removed. \n\n\n\nWordPress is still evolving the survey format to get a better understanding of the community’s sentiments and values.\n\n\n\n“This year, like last year, the survey has undergone some improvements to the flow and question set,” Automattic-sponsored contributor Dan Soschin said. “A new platform is also being piloted, offering an updated interface, enhanced multi-lingual support, expanded analysis and visualization tools for the results, and more. The new platform also has built-in accessibility and privacy controls, ensuring the survey meets the diverse needs of the WordPress community.”\n\n\n\nThe 2023 survey takes approximately 5-10 minutes to complete. It collects information on some basic demographics, various community involvements, preferred WordPress editor, how and why you are using WordPress, and more. Several questions allow the community to weigh in on the most frustrating aspects of WordPress, areas that need more attention, and whether or not the current WordPress roadmap reflects respondents’ needs and desires for the future of the project. \n\n\n\nIn addition to English, the survey is available in nine widely-used languages, which participants can select from a drop-down menu at the top of the page. All the data collected in the survey will be anonymized and WordPress does not associate IP addresses or email addresses with the results.", "date_published": "2023-09-27T18:53:37-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-27T18:53:39-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/pencil.jpg", "tags": [ "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=149350", "url": "https://wptavern.com/podcast/92-juliette-reinders-folmer-on-when-contributions-need-to-be-paid", "title": "#92 \u2013 Juliette Reinders Folmer on When Contributions Need to Be Paid", "content_html": "\n
Transcript
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Juliette Reinders Folmer

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[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

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Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case when contributions to WordPress deserve payment.

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If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

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If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, well, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox and use the form there.

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So on the podcast today, we have Juliette Reinders Folmer.

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Juliette is a highly experienced professional in the field of coding standards. With a deep understanding of industry best practices, she has dedicated herself for many years to ensuring code quality and consistency within WordPress.

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Juliette acknowledges that coding standards encompass more than just formatting and white space, they also play a crucial role in maintaining compatibility and preventing conflicts between plugins.

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By adhering to these standards, developers can minimize errors, and fatal issues for end users. To facilitate the implementation of coding standards, Juliette talks about the importance of automated checks and continuous integration.

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We chat about her commitment to WordPress coding standards, and how the work that she’s done in this field have made her a trusted authority. Through her contributions and guidance, she has helped countless developers enhance their code quality, ultimately improving the overall WordPress ecosystem.

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We talk about Juliette’s role as one of the maintainers of WordPress Coding Standards or WordPress CS. Discussing the importance of consistent code and the challenges of maintaining, and funding, open source projects.

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Clearly there’s great value in tools like WordPress CS. Consistency is key for developers, and using a tool like WordPress CS makes it easier for them to meet expectations and be productive. It saves time by automating manual changes, and helps prevent conflicts and potential problems with other plugins or WordPress Core. Juliette emphasizes the continuous nature of the project. Where updates to a variety of PHP projects need to be kept in sync with the WordPress side of things.

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All that said maintaining open source projects like WordPress CS comes with its challenges. Juliette tells us about the importance of financial support and adequate resources to mitigate business risk, as projects that go on maintained can create dependency issues and pose problems during corporate audits.

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She speaks openly about her decision to step away from contributing. The project is so crucial, but underfunded and Juliette thinks it’s time to draw a line in the sand. It’s time for contributions in return for payment.

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It’s not just about financial contributions though. Juliette asks us to support the WordPress Community Collective, and for us all to explore other ways to assist the project. She highlights the need for all companies benefiting from WordPress to contribute towards funding more broadly, rather than relying on one or two of the larger companies in the space.

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If you’re a contributor who was even pondered how much WordPress relies on volunteers, this podcast is for you.

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If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

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And so without further delay, I bring you Juliette Reinders Folmer.

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I am joined on the podcast today by Juliette Reinders Folmer. Hello, Juliette.

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[00:04:41] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Hi Nathan. And you got my name right.

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[00:04:43] Nathan Wrigley: I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I’ve had a little bit of a practice, let’s put it that way. I appreciate you being on the podcast today.

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This is going to be a really interesting subject. It could get a bit nerdy, but I suspect that we’ll avoid large proportion of the nerdiness. But we’re going to be talking today about something which I suspect a lot of the people who tune into this podcast regularly may not know anything about. Hopefully during the course of this podcast we’ll alert you to why you should know about it, why it’s important, what it is, what it does.

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But before we get into that, WordPressCS or WPCS, let’s ask Juliette just to introduce herself. Tell us a little bit about her background, working with WordPress, what she does and all of that. So Juliette, if that’s okay with you, over to you, little bio moment.

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[00:05:32] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Oh dear. I did not prepare for that bit. Basically I’ve been self employed for good 20 years now, and as a general rule of thumb, I do whatever I like and I hope that sometimes people actually pay me money to do it. Which is not always great from a commercial point of view but it keeps me happy.

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[00:05:51] Nathan Wrigley: Typically on this podcast we have people who are devoted to some aspect of WordPress. My understanding is that your technical expertise stretches beyond WordPress as well, PHP and various other different things. So is it true that you only operate in the WordPress space, or do you stretch a little bit further than that?

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[00:06:11] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I’m all over the place. I sometimes say for people who are really in the WordPress community, see me as the PHP community reaching out and helping.

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[00:06:20] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. So this podcast today is going to stem off a piece that I read on the WP Tavern. It was written by Sarah Gooding. If you want to find it I will link it in the show notes. But maybe for ease of use, it was published on August the 22nd 2023, and it’s called WordPress coding standards maintainer warns maintenance will be halted without funding, in quotes, this is an unsustainable situation.

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That maintainer is you, and that’s what we’re going to talk about today. We’re going to talk about that unsustainable situation. But I feel that we can’t really talk about why it’s unsustainable unless we learn a little bit about what WPCS is, what it does.

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I know that’s an enormous subject to deal with in just a few moments. But I wonder if you could paint a picture of what WCS is because I feel the listenership, there may be quite a proportion of us that don’t know.

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[00:07:17] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Absolutely. Okay so WordPress, like most projects, have coding standards. And now when I say coding standards a lot of people think, okay this is about how code should be formatted, white space, whether things should have comments and doc blocks. You know, how code should look.

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In part, yes that’s correct. We do have rules for that, because if code looks the same across your whole code base it makes it much easier to review code and only concentrate on the actual changes, instead of being distracted by all the inconsistencies in how the code is formatted. So, yes there are rules about code style, code formatting. But WordPress coding standards does much more.

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It also encompasses a number of rules around best practices, just industry best practices. Best practices for how to interact with WordPress. So as a plugin you don’t want to conflict with other plugins. So there are certain best practices you can apply, like prefixing everything you put in the global namespace.

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And if you apply those correctly the chance of your plugin conflicting with another plugin and creating a widescreen of death, fatal error, for end users is a lot smaller. And WordPressCS can help with that as well and has, on the one hand, has some rules for that. On the other hand, what you then get is WordPressCS as the package, because you have the written rule, but then you also have tooling which basically takes those written rules and codifies that into automated checks. Automated checks which can be run in continuous integration.

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So every time someone puts some code online those checks can be run to make sure that the code complies with the rules you’ve agreed upon. And WordPressCS is one of those packages. It’s a package which takes those rules, codifies them in automated checks and then can be run on your code. And it doesn’t just check it and point out errors, it can actually auto fix a lot as well.

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[00:09:29] Nathan Wrigley: So the enterprise of WPCS, and I should probably say that CS is the acronym for Code Sniffer. The enterprise is to create this suite of tests if you like, so that whilst you’re writing code, if you’re using CI, it’s constantly giving you alerts as to whether or not there’s a problem. We’ve identified that there’s a little problem here, you can take a look at it, and thereby mitigate the problems, right?

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[00:09:55] Juliette Reinders Folmer: It can even do it even more directly. If you use a modern IDE, individual development environment like a PHP Storm or VS Code, it can even give you those notifications while you’re coding. It integrates with that kind of tooling. So while you’re typing your code, it can fix things for you and it can notify you of the things it doesn’t fix.

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[00:10:19] Nathan Wrigley: So given the open source nature of WordPress, and the fact that anybody can download it and anybody can write a plugin for it, an interesting comparison would be something like the Mac App Store, or the Apple App Store where Apple, in effect, is the custodian of the code. Apple will go to great lengths to make sure that your code is compliant and it’s completely the opposite model. You put stuff into their ecosystem, they’ll do checks and make sure that it’s all compliant with oh let’s say iOS or something like that.

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[00:10:50] Juliette Reinders Folmer: In a way a similar situation is in place in the WordPress ecosystem at large, because if you want a plugin to be listed on wordpress.org it goes through a list of quality checks as well. And they have some specific checks from that team, but some of the checks they use also are based on WordPressCS or are from WordPressCS.

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[00:11:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah that’s a really good point. I was thinking also about the sort of third party plugin marketplace which exists in WordPress, into which anybody can drop their code. So it’s quite, you know, you can go to one of hundreds of thousands of websites and download a plugin which you can add to WordPress. And really there’s a bit of a gamble going on there. You’re hopefully able to determine that the code is good.

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But a tool like WPCS will give you some guidance. You can run it yourself. It’s not like you have to trust the repo. If you went out and got third party plugins you could run these tests yourself. And just before we started the call, you were talking about if you were, let’s say an agency, and you had a particular need and you had three or four plugins that you thought might be useful. They would, all of them satisfy the requirements that you’ve got. But you could run them through something like WPCS, and get a real useful insight into well, whether or not they meet the standards, how compliant they are and so on.

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[00:12:12] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Correct. You will get some noise messages about different white space requirements, for instance. But you will also get messages about, hang on, this is not prefixed and this could conflict. Or hang on, output is not escaped. This plugin may introduce XSS security vulnerabilities. There are actual sniffs in WordPressCS which scan your code for typical attack vectors, and whether your code is well enough defensive against those attack vectors.

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[00:12:45] Nathan Wrigley: And I’m guessing that the enterprise of keeping WPCS maintained is like a road that you never reach the end of. You are updating it but there’s always the next change out in the, I don’t know, PHP ecosystem, which means that you can’t ever say well it’s done. Because PHP 8 comes along, then PHP 8.1 and PHP 8.2 and so we go.

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So would that be fair to say? What kind of things is it sniffing for? Are we just working in the PHP space, or is it working with other things as well?

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[00:13:19] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Well PHP_CodeSniffer as the underlying tooling, at this point is capable of scanning PHP, CSS code and JavaScript code. For the most part WordPressCS just focuses on the PHP code, because by now if we look at the whole ecosystem in development, there is plenty of other tooling available for CSS and JavaScript. Which wasn’t available when PHP_CodeSniffer started, because this is an old project.

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I mean this project got started in 2005. So at that time that tooling was not available. So this was one of the only tools which could do something like this. The intention of PHP_CodeSniffer, because there’s so much other tooling available now for CSS and JavaScript, is to actually drop support for CSS and JavaScript. So with that in the back of our minds, our focus is completely on PHP.

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[00:14:11] Nathan Wrigley: And so getting back to the question about how this is a never ending road, I’m assuming there will have been no point in the past, or predictably in the future where you’ll be able to say, okay this is done, because there’s constant work that needs to be done because the technology, the PHP, is always adding lots and lots of different things from year to year.

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[00:14:34] Juliette Reinders Folmer: And it’s not just PHP. I mean if something changes in WordPress, WordPressCS needs to take that into account. For instance one of the scans is applied to plugins but also I think to WordPress Core is, are you using deprecated functions? Because those functions are deprecated for a reason. So you should use something else. There’s normally an alternative available.

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Or are you using particular PHP functions for which there is a WordPress alternative which should be used? So if WordPress introduces one of those alternatives then WordPressCS needs to be updated to add a new check. If WordPress deprecates functions, WordPressCS needs to be updated.

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On the other hand, like you already pointed out, every year there’s a new minor release of PHP, sometimes a major. But at least every year there’s a minor and those introduce new syntaxes. And in the past three, four years PHP has introduced so many new syntaxes it became really hard to keep up. All those syntaxes mean that code can be written in different ways.

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And sniffs basically look for a certain pattern of code. But if code can now be written in a different way, that new way of writing code needs to be taken into account. To prevent false positives, as in throwing an error when there shouldn’t be an error. But also prevent false negatives, for people using the new syntax and the sniff not being able to understand it and throw the error which should be thrown.

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Every single sniff basically needs to be reviewed after every PHP release, to be checked if it needs to take any of the new syntaxes into account. But before we can do that the underlying tooling needs to be updated as well, because it actually needs to recognise the new syntaxes.

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[00:16:26] Nathan Wrigley: So a constant study.

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[00:16:28] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yeah it’s a whole domino chain of things and it’s basically a circle going round, because yes, we put dominoes in place and then we managed to get things merged in PHP_CodeSniffer. Then PHPCSUtils can update, and then we can update WordPressCS. And by that time a new PHP version has come out and we can start the whole circle again.

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[00:16:49] Nathan Wrigley: We have this expression in the UK, “it’s like painting the Forth Bridge”. The Forth Bridge is a particularly long bridge in Scotland, and you begin painting at one end and by the time a year or so later they’ve got to the other end, well, the paint on the far end has now become corroded, and they’ve got to begin again so it’s this never ending cycle.

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If you’ve heard of WPCS and have used it, I’m sure that you will recognise the utility of it. But if you haven’t, and as I said at the top of the show, I think there’s probably a lot of people listening to this who haven’t. How do we actually make use of it? How would a typical WordPress user get WPCS working, and giving them some insight into the suite of things that they’ve got in their WordPress site?

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[00:17:32] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Okay. Well for people who are not used to command line, this might be a bit scary. You need the command line. Then again I mean, as I said, it integrates with IDEs so you can run certain things in IDEs as well. But as a general rule of thumb if you want to scan for instance, say you’re evaluating those four plugins to find out which one you’re going to install, like the example you used earlier.

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The easiest way to use WordPressCS as part of your toolset when you’re evaluating, is to do so from the command line. And that means you need PHP installed. Well if you work with WordPress you generally should probably have PHP installed. You need Composer which is a package manager in the PHP world, like npm for JavaScript but then for the PHP world.

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And then you need to install WordPressCS and that’s a Composer require. And if you don’t work with code yourself I would say use a Composer global require, then you can use it anywhere on your system without it being project specific. If you do work with code, please use it on a project basis and require it for the project, because it will also make it transparent for other contributors that you expect them to comply with WordPressCS.

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So yeah, you can either install it globally or you can install it on a project base. And once you run the Composer require, it has all of that in the readme of course, so you can just copy and paste that command.

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Once you run that everything is set up, and you can just run the commands to run WordPressCS which is vendor, bin, phpcs, dash dash standard is WordPress.

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At the same time, most of the time, you will want to customise a little. For instance, I mentioned prefixing before to prevent conflicts with other plugins. If you want to check prefixes you need to tell WordPressCS which prefix to look for. If you don’t give it any prefixes, we cannot check whether things are prefixed. We need to know what to look for.

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In the WordPressCS repo, an example rule set, which has some of the common things which you should add to a custom rule set to use. There’s also, in the wiki, quite a lot of documentation about what the various options are you can toggle on and off. That way you can set up a customer rule set and get yourself running in a more detailed way.

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[00:20:08] Nathan Wrigley: I suspect that the proportion of people listening to this podcast who really never look at the code, they are, I don’t know, you maybe call them implementers or something like that, might be thinking well, why does any of this matter? What is the point? And I guess that’s something that I want to tease out.

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I want it to be clear that unless projects like WPCS occur and continue to occur, the bedrock of the software, which we’re all using for free, gratis, is not going to be something that you can trust as much, I guess.

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So I don’t know if there’s anything you want to throw into the mix there. If somebody was to come to you and say well I just use WordPress, why should I care about this? Why is this of interest to me? It’s a bit like, if I never go to a hospital, it’s not well we shouldn’t have hospitals because I’m perfectly well. Something along those lines.

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[00:21:01] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yeah, well if your site’s never been hacked that’s the same comparison. Your site’s never been hacked. So why do we need security checks and security reviews?

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[00:21:10] Nathan Wrigley: So what would be the single, or maybe a couple of messages that you would tell people, this is why what I’m doing matters. This is why we all need to know that this project exists, and that it’s important.

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[00:21:23] Juliette Reinders Folmer: There’s different answers for different levels. So for developers it definitely makes it easier for them to be high productive. Because if code is consistent it makes it easier to work with, to know the expectations, to review code, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s a productivity tool for them, including the auto fixing.

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Some of the changes which may need to be done, if you’d need to do those manually that would take you like a week or two weeks. And if you use the auto fixer, it’s done in five minutes for you. So that is literally two weeks of work saved. That’s on the development level and the management, the IT department level.

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If you are an agency who normally doesn’t use code, it’s more about, okay if I install this plugin, will it cause problems with other plugins? Will it cause problems for WordPress Core? Because there are plugins which will gladly override a global variable from WordPress Core and then WordPress Core breaks.

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WordPressCS has checks against stuff like that. I already mentioned the conflict. If there’s two functions in two different plugins which use the same name, you have a fatal error and a white screen of death. Do you want your customer to get a white screen of death? No you don’t. So this tooling can help guard against that, can help prevent those kind of situations from happening.

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[00:22:52] Nathan Wrigley: So I’m going to go back to the piece on the WP Tavern. I’m going to read the title again because I think it’s important for the next part of our discussion. WordPress Coding Standards maintainer warns maintenance will be halted without funding, this is an unsustainable situation.

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So the person that is referenced in that article is you. You’ve obviously decided that this is an unsustainable situation. I think we’ve painted a picture as to why WPCS is an incredibly useful thing to have around. But i’m keen to know exactly how many people get their hands in the weeds with that tool? How many people do you have on your air quotes team? How many hours are contributed by those people per month, per year, whatever? Just give us an inkling as to how much goes into this important project.

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[00:23:42] Juliette Reinders Folmer: As I already mentioned, WordPressCS is not a completely standalone tool. It is built on the shoulders of giants. The underlying tool, PHP_CodeSniffer, needs to be maintained primarily before we can even do anything in WordPressCS. That tool currently has two maintainers and I’m one of them.

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There are outside contributors, and quite regularly we get an outside contributor with a pull request. But if you look at the bulk, to be honest, I don’t think I’m saying anything silly if I say that for the past few years a lot of that has come down to me. So that is the biggest giant we’re standing on.

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Then we have PHPCSUtils which is a layer on top of PHP_CodeSniffer which makes writing sniffs easier. Because writing sniffs can be pretty complex with all the syntaxes you have to take into account. Maintained by me, completely.

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Then we have PHPCSExtra, which is an external standard which WordPressCS uses quite a few sniffs from. About, I think more than 50% of the sniffs from PHPCSExtra are used in WordPressCS 3. Again, I’m the maintainer.

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Remember that I mentioned that you install everything via Composer? There’s a Composer plugin which makes sure that all those external standards get registered with PHP_CodeSniffer. I maintain that together with one other person.

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And then we have WordPressCS itself. And we have a maintainer team of three people. I’m really, really happy that there’s three of us. At the same time the majority of the actual code work comes down to me. Dennis would love to spend more time, but he hasn’t got the financial safety net to be able to do so without funding. Gary hasn’t got the time to do so anyway.

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So I’m really happy with Gary and Dennis’s support, and for all the code review they do. But if we actually look at the code changes, nearly everything comes down to me.

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[00:25:45] Nathan Wrigley: So we’re painting a picture here, and it’s a funny phrase to bring out but there’s this idea of the bus factor. And the bus factor is the idea that if, sadly, somebody was to be hit by a bus, and they were no longer able to contribute to the project. The bus factor being one is indicative that you only need to have one person removed from the project for the whole thing essentially to collapse.

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And that’s basically what we’ve got here. We’ve got a situation where you are maintaining an awful lot of what you’ve just described, and you’re doing it, well, gratis. You’re doing it largely I’m imagining, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, you’re doing this in your own time for no financial benefit.

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And I guess one of the things that’s come out of the article is that having done this for so many years, and contributed so many hours of your own time, you’ve reached the end of the road potentially about that and you feel that this situation is no longer sustainable. It’s a bit of a plea for help?

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[00:26:56] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yes. I mean basically over the past two years this has dominated my daily life, in a way which isn’t healthy anymore. It’s not you know a nice side project anymore. No, it’s literally what I spend nearly all my time on. And I’m lucky that I have a few stable customers where I can scrounge some hours here and there to be able to actually pay for my bread at the supermarket.

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The balance is completely wrong now.. And I’m not alone. I mean this is valid for a lot of open source projects. But we’ve reached a point that the balance is so far off that this is just not sustainable anymore. I cannot afford to do this anymore. I cannot justify doing this anymore.

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[00:27:44] Nathan Wrigley: Forgive me asking this question, and I hope it doesn’t come out the way that it might, but I’m going to ask it anyway. Do you have regrets around the amount of time that you’ve contributed over the past? So you mentioned that it’s requiring lots and lots of your time, and you’re basically doing this as a, almost like a full time job really.

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Do you have any regrets getting into 2023 and that situation being the way it was? Or do you wish that you’d have managed to have this inspiration, if you like, this epiphany about enough is enough, a few years ago?

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[00:28:18] Juliette Reinders Folmer: When it’s enough I say so. It’s felt like it’s been enough for about a year, and a large part of that is the fact that, in my perception, I think there’s a disconnect between the open source user nowadays and open source maintainers.

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Open source users often don’t realise there’s no funding. They are not the product. And they come in with a sense of entitlements, and a sense of pressure which is being put on maintainers to release, and yes but you should do this. No, I shouldn’t do this. I’m doing this out of the kindness of my heart, and you should be a lot kinder to me if you want to make any suggestions for the project.

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[00:29:01] Nathan Wrigley: Can I just clarify, have you been at the receiving end then of things which you, in the way that you’ve described, you’ve had requests in well let’s not beat around the bush, less than polite, shall we put it that way?

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[00:29:13] Juliette Reinders Folmer: We actually at some point had to put, in a hurry, a code of conduct into the project. And we couldn’t wait for the WordPress project to get themselves sorted with a code of conduct, because we had an abusive user which was really going way too far.

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[00:29:28] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I mean like you said, I think the word surrounding that is entitlement, isn’t it? Somebody who believes that it is your role. You have become the person doing this and so well it must now be what Juliette does. Juliette must fix it at the moment anything needs fixing. And of course I think you’ve reached the end of the road there, and you’ve decided that enough is enough.

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Does that mean that you are, well, let’s examine what that means. Let’s throw out a few scenarios. Does it mean that you would like more maintainers, so that you can step away from the project? Or is there a different possible outcome here where you would love to be continuing to work on this, but there needs to be some way of putting food on the table, i.e. payment in exchange for your time here? So I guess both of those options could coexist at the same time.

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[00:30:16] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yes, and that would be the ideal situation because the thing is, it would be great if we could get more maintainers interested and more people be willing to contribute structurally to the project. Except this type of work has quite a steep learning curve. So to get to the point where you can function as a maintainer for a project like this, and actually take it seriously in the way it’s been taken seriously over the past few years, that will require quite a lot of coaching, and guess who’s doing the coaching then.

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[00:30:49] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So let’s ask that slightly different question. Over the past several years, have you had people go through the project? You know, that they’re interested in it, but they don’t stick around or is it literally that the door is open but nobody ever steps through it?

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[00:31:04] Juliette Reinders Folmer: There’s a number of different types of contributors. You have the drive by contributor. We will say okay, we have this sniff which we use in our own company, I’m going to throw it into PR and just drop it in the WordPressCS repo, because it could be useful for other people.

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You do an extensive review and give them feedback of you know, this needs changing that need changing. Because if you use it in your own company you can take some liberties because you know what the agreements are, what code is based on in that company. Except you can’t take those liberties with a project which has this many users as WordPressCS. So we require a higher quality. And the drive by contributor will just not respond to that review at all, and just let the PR rot and die. So that’s the one.

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Then you have, and I’ve seen two, three people over the past five years maybe in WordPressCS like that, will come in and actually understand what they’re doing and how to do a PR. But then don’t have enough time or have a family, have a job and their employer doesn’t allow them to contribute to open source regularly, et cetera. Or they get moved into a different position in their job, and then don’t have time anymore.

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Those are like the little jewels which I’d like to hold onto, and cherish and cuddle and watch to flourish in the project. Except they are rare and unfortunately we rarely manage to retain them.

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And then you have the, oh gosh how should I call it? What’s that called again? That month of code thingy, Oktoberfest. Yeah, I’m going to make a one character change in your readme. Let’s waste maintainers time, kind of PRs. Just so they can get a t shirt kind of thing.

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There’s a couple of different types of contributors. A lot of contributors, or people I talk with, will say like, oh I’d love to contribute. I’m going to write a new sniff. And I’m like okay but do you actually know what you’re doing already? No, you don’t. Okay. So now you’re going to write a new sniff, and that needs a lot of coaching to get to a point where it’s actually mergeable. Instead of helping with the grunge work which needs to be done every time, every year, at every WordPress release, every PHP release. And actually learning from the patterns you see in others existing code.

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And I know that the grunge work is boring, but it needs to be done, and we need people who will put up with the grunge work because otherwise the code base will just grow with new sniffs but nobody’s maintaining.

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[00:33:47] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So I guess what we’re discovering here is, A the project is important. B there’s not many people meaningfully contributing to it, apart from the ones that you mentioned including yourself. I think you mentioned two other people.

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[00:34:02] Juliette Reinders Folmer: We do get some contributions which are meaningful, absolutely. I’m not dissing that at all. But it’s the exception not the rule, in my experience. And that’s a shame. I mean I really would love to see more meaningful contributions.

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[00:34:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah okay. Thank you for clarifying that. That’s good. But it also sounds as if you’re not quite at the point where you want to completely distance yourself from this project and never touch it again. I think I’m right in saying that a possible desirable outcome would be that you found a way to make this work for your setup.

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And really what I’m talking about there is finance. Am I right in saying that you would continue this work if you were able to make it a job, if you like, and be paid for it?

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[00:34:49] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Absolutely. I mean I enjoy this kind of work. That’s obvious otherwise I wouldn’t have gotten involved in the whole stack, and even projects related to which I haven’t even mentioned yet. I do enjoy this kind of work, but I do not enjoy the abuse, and the abuse is something I will not put up with anymore. Only ever put up with if it’s paid, if I get paid for it.

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[00:35:11] Nathan Wrigley: So since the article was published on the Tavern, so we’re recording this just for context kind of probably about 20 plus days since that piece was published. There were a lot of comments, an unusually large amount of comments. So this topic is of great interest to people. And I wondered, given that there was great interest and a large amount of comments there, I wondered if anybody had figured out what your requirement was, and had approached you. In other words has anything changed or is it still the way it was?

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[00:35:42] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I can see some parties being interested in contributing to a solution, but I’ve not seen a solution yet. But one of the things which has changed, and which I think is an improvement, and i’m really hoping that will allow people to contribute to the funding of the project, is that the WPCC has in their open collective, has opened a project for WordPressCS and the stack around it, to raise funding for that.

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[00:36:15] Nathan Wrigley: So just for clarity, the WPCC is the WordPress Community Collective. And what you can do is you can go over there and they have a handful, at the moment, of projects which you can donate to. And it looks like you have been added to that, or at least the WPCS project has been.

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Do you have an amount, like a target that you want to get to in order for this to be possible for you? Or is it more a, well let’s just see where this goes, and bit of blue sky thinking, hopefully some people will help me out?

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[00:36:45] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I have a target in mind. I’m not comfortable calling that out on air though.

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[00:36:48] Nathan Wrigley: No that’s fine. So that’s where we’re at. As of the 5th of September 2023, we’ve got this incredibly important project which underpins the sort of security, the confidence that you can have in WordPress and the plugin ecosystem surrounding it. But we’ve got this one or two or three, but largely one person maintaining that entire project. But it looks as if, unless something radically changes in the near future, as if that whole edifice might tumble. How much more time are you going to give this before you actually finally call it a day? Maybe that’s not even in your thinking, and maybe it’s you know you’re hoping that it will change

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[00:37:29] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Well I’m definitely hoping it will change. As a rule of thumb I’m basically not touching the code anymore. Not until there is sight of a solution.

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WordPressCS is definitely not an exception. I mean I know open source projects where there’s much bigger problems with abuse than in WordPressCS. I’ve known people who’ve had death threats in their DMs, et cetera, et cetera. That open source and abuse is a whole different topic, but it’s definitely not isolated to WordPressCS. And WordPressCS need for funding is also not isolated. I mean the accessibility project also needs funding. There’s other projects in the periphery of WordPress which could do with funding.

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I think that it’s very easy for people to think, like okay but WordPress is open source and yeah there’s some big companies earning money so they should pay for everything. I do not agree. I think we should as companies which earn money from WordPress, that all those companies should get together in something like the WordPress Community Collective and fund those projects.

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It shouldn’t come down to one or two of the bigger ones. It should come down to all of us because all of us are making money off it. Well all of you, because I’m not.

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[00:38:48] Nathan Wrigley: Obviously the nuts and the bolts of that mechanism, the bits and the pieces that would need to be configured to make that work, i’ve come across that project yet. But that is a really interesting idea, isn’t it? The idea that there’d be somewhere, and the WPCC does seem the best bet we’ve got at the moment.

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It feels a little bit like five for the future or something like that. But instead of it being time, it’s, okay we’re a big company we make money off these things. We use PHP, we use the code sniffing, we do these plugins that are open source and so on. So let’s just put our flag in the sand and say we’ll donate 5% of our resources, and then that organisation, whatever it was, the WPCC or something else that’s new, could then distribute those resources and people like you could dip into that pool. That seems eminently sensible.

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[00:39:36] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I’ve written about this years ago already. It’s also about business risk. If you run a business which is built on an open source project, and you do not contribute back financially, as well as with people. You run business on quicksand. You are literally running it on quicksand. Any corporate audit type of your company will say you’ve got an unmitigated business risk.

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You have risk that those projects which you’re not contributing to, which you’re not paying for, for which don’t have a service contract, are just going to go unmaintained. And you are so dependent on these projects, you should mitigate that business risk. And one way of doing that is with funding. Another way is with resources, and preferably with both.

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And it’s not just WordPress yes, it’s all the open source projects in the stack. Go through the whole stack. You have PHP Units probably in your stack. You have Apache in your stack. You have a Chrome browser in which you test things in your stack.

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And Chrome, yes, everyone associates it with Google, but it’s built on top of Chromium which is open source. You might use Mastodon as a communication channel. Make sure you also fund your Mastodon instance. It’s the whole stack of all those open source projects which need funding. So go through your stack. Do a proper inventory and fund them. This is the only way to mitigate the business risk all of those companies are running.

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[00:41:05] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I think you’ve made a really compelling case for this. In that, A, we’ve painted the picture of what it is that you’re involved in, and how important it is as a real bedrock of reliance and the ability for us to be confident in WordPress. And then we’ve also painted the picture of how the underpinnings of that aren’t very stable. Because all of us, unless we’re incredibly lucky, have to put food on the table and we have to be paid for our work.

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And it does sound like the balance, certainly in your case, has gone really far in one direction, and you are the single biggest contributor to that project. And so it makes it all the more important that something like this gets funded, however that may be.

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Now if you happen to be listening to this podcast and you feel that you are able to change the direction here. Juliette, what would be the best way? It sounds like WPCC, which I’ll link to in the show notes, may be the best way at the moment. But I don’t know if you’ve got any other intuitions about how this project might be helped.

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[00:42:07] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Companies can always reach out to me, DM me, Slack, or DM the maintainers as a collective. Gary, Dennis, and me on the WordPress slack. Open Collective is definitely welcome to receive funding for us. Keep in mind, I look towards the companies. I do not look to individual developers to fund this. Because, yes, they feel it most if projects like this don’t continue. But they are the ones we should talk to management and tell management to fund it, because it shouldn’t come down to individual developers. And one time contributions are very welcome, but recurring contributions are what keeps the project alive.

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[00:42:48] Nathan Wrigley: Well let’s hope that there’s somebody listening to this for whom it has raised awareness enough. Let’s hope that we can come back in a year’s time, do another podcast episode and we’ll be talking about a different setup. Let’s hope that that’s the case.

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Juliette, I really appreciate you being on the podcast today, and telling us an awful lot about your personal circumstance and things. So I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.

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[00:43:11] Juliette Reinders Folmer: You’re very welcome. I enjoyed being here, and hopefully my bakery around the corner will enjoy it soon as well, because I can then actually start paying them.

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On the podcast today we have Juliette Reinders Folmer.

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Juliette is a highly experienced professional in the field of coding standards. With a deep understanding of industry best practices, she has dedicated herself for many years to ensuring code quality, and consistency within WordPress.

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Juliette acknowledges that coding standards encompass more than just formatting and white space, they also play a crucial role in maintaining compatibility and preventing conflicts between plugins. By adhering to these standards, developers can minimise errors and fatal issues for end users. To facilitate the implementation of coding standards, Juliette talks about the importance of automated checks and continuous integration.

\n\n\n\n

We chat about her commitment to WordPress coding standards, and how the work that she\u2019s done in this field have made her a trusted authority. Through her contributions and guidance, she has helped countless developers enhance their code quality, ultimately improving the overall WordPress ecosystem.

\n\n\n\n

We talk about Juliette\u2019s role as one of the maintainers of WordPress Coding Standards (WordPress CS), discussing the importance of consistent code, and the challenges of maintaining and funding open source projects.

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Clearly, there\u2019s great value in tools like WordPress CS. Consistency is key for developers, and using a tool like WordPress CS makes it easier for them to meet expectations and be productive. It saves time by automating manual changes, and helps prevent conflicts and potential problems with other plugins or WordPress Core. Juliette emphasises the continuous nature of the project, where updates to a variety of PHP projects need to be kept in sync with the WordPress side of things.

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All that said, maintaining open source projects like WordPress CS comes with its challenges. Juliette tells us about the importance of financial support and adequate resources to mitigate business risk, as projects that go unmaintained can create dependency issues and pose problems during corporate audits. She speaks openly about her recent decision to step away from contributing. The project is so crucial, but underfunded, and Juliette thinks it\u2019s time to draw a line in the sand. It\u2019s time for contributions in return for payment.

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It’s not just about financial contributions though. Juliette asks us to support the WordPress Community Collective, and for us all to explore other ways to assist the project. She highlights the need for all companies benefiting from WordPress to contribute towards funding more broadly, rather than relying on one or two of the larger companies in the space.

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If you\u2019re a contributor who has even pondered how much WordPress relies on volunteers, this podcast is for you.

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Useful links.

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WordPress Coding Standards Maintainer Warns Maintenance Will Be Halted Without Funding: \u201cThis Is an Unsustainable Situation.\u201d

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WordPressCS

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PHP Storm

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VS Code

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PHPCSUtils

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Composer

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The WP Community Collective

\n", "content_text": "Transcript\nJuliette Reinders Folmer\n\n\n\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case when contributions to WordPress deserve payment.\n\n\n\nIf you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, well, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Juliette Reinders Folmer.\n\n\n\nJuliette is a highly experienced professional in the field of coding standards. With a deep understanding of industry best practices, she has dedicated herself for many years to ensuring code quality and consistency within WordPress.\n\n\n\nJuliette acknowledges that coding standards encompass more than just formatting and white space, they also play a crucial role in maintaining compatibility and preventing conflicts between plugins.\n\n\n\nBy adhering to these standards, developers can minimize errors, and fatal issues for end users. To facilitate the implementation of coding standards, Juliette talks about the importance of automated checks and continuous integration.\n\n\n\nWe chat about her commitment to WordPress coding standards, and how the work that she’s done in this field have made her a trusted authority. Through her contributions and guidance, she has helped countless developers enhance their code quality, ultimately improving the overall WordPress ecosystem.\n\n\n\nWe talk about Juliette’s role as one of the maintainers of WordPress Coding Standards or WordPress CS. Discussing the importance of consistent code and the challenges of maintaining, and funding, open source projects.\n\n\n\nClearly there’s great value in tools like WordPress CS. Consistency is key for developers, and using a tool like WordPress CS makes it easier for them to meet expectations and be productive. It saves time by automating manual changes, and helps prevent conflicts and potential problems with other plugins or WordPress Core. Juliette emphasizes the continuous nature of the project. Where updates to a variety of PHP projects need to be kept in sync with the WordPress side of things.\n\n\n\nAll that said maintaining open source projects like WordPress CS comes with its challenges. Juliette tells us about the importance of financial support and adequate resources to mitigate business risk, as projects that go on maintained can create dependency issues and pose problems during corporate audits.\n\n\n\nShe speaks openly about her decision to step away from contributing. The project is so crucial, but underfunded and Juliette thinks it’s time to draw a line in the sand. It’s time for contributions in return for payment.\n\n\n\nIt’s not just about financial contributions though. Juliette asks us to support the WordPress Community Collective, and for us all to explore other ways to assist the project. She highlights the need for all companies benefiting from WordPress to contribute towards funding more broadly, rather than relying on one or two of the larger companies in the space.\n\n\n\nIf you’re a contributor who was even pondered how much WordPress relies on volunteers, this podcast is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Juliette Reinders Folmer.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast today by Juliette Reinders Folmer. Hello, Juliette.\n\n\n\n[00:04:41] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Hi Nathan. And you got my name right.\n\n\n\n[00:04:43] Nathan Wrigley: I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I’ve had a little bit of a practice, let’s put it that way. I appreciate you being on the podcast today.\n\n\n\nThis is going to be a really interesting subject. It could get a bit nerdy, but I suspect that we’ll avoid large proportion of the nerdiness. But we’re going to be talking today about something which I suspect a lot of the people who tune into this podcast regularly may not know anything about. Hopefully during the course of this podcast we’ll alert you to why you should know about it, why it’s important, what it is, what it does.\n\n\n\nBut before we get into that, WordPressCS or WPCS, let’s ask Juliette just to introduce herself. Tell us a little bit about her background, working with WordPress, what she does and all of that. So Juliette, if that’s okay with you, over to you, little bio moment.\n\n\n\n[00:05:32] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Oh dear. I did not prepare for that bit. Basically I’ve been self employed for good 20 years now, and as a general rule of thumb, I do whatever I like and I hope that sometimes people actually pay me money to do it. Which is not always great from a commercial point of view but it keeps me happy.\n\n\n\n[00:05:51] Nathan Wrigley: Typically on this podcast we have people who are devoted to some aspect of WordPress. My understanding is that your technical expertise stretches beyond WordPress as well, PHP and various other different things. So is it true that you only operate in the WordPress space, or do you stretch a little bit further than that?\n\n\n\n[00:06:11] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I’m all over the place. I sometimes say for people who are really in the WordPress community, see me as the PHP community reaching out and helping.\n\n\n\n[00:06:20] Nathan Wrigley: Nice. So this podcast today is going to stem off a piece that I read on the WP Tavern. It was written by Sarah Gooding. If you want to find it I will link it in the show notes. But maybe for ease of use, it was published on August the 22nd 2023, and it’s called WordPress coding standards maintainer warns maintenance will be halted without funding, in quotes, this is an unsustainable situation.\n\n\n\nThat maintainer is you, and that’s what we’re going to talk about today. We’re going to talk about that unsustainable situation. But I feel that we can’t really talk about why it’s unsustainable unless we learn a little bit about what WPCS is, what it does.\n\n\n\nI know that’s an enormous subject to deal with in just a few moments. But I wonder if you could paint a picture of what WCS is because I feel the listenership, there may be quite a proportion of us that don’t know.\n\n\n\n[00:07:17] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Absolutely. Okay so WordPress, like most projects, have coding standards. And now when I say coding standards a lot of people think, okay this is about how code should be formatted, white space, whether things should have comments and doc blocks. You know, how code should look.\n\n\n\nIn part, yes that’s correct. We do have rules for that, because if code looks the same across your whole code base it makes it much easier to review code and only concentrate on the actual changes, instead of being distracted by all the inconsistencies in how the code is formatted. So, yes there are rules about code style, code formatting. But WordPress coding standards does much more.\n\n\n\nIt also encompasses a number of rules around best practices, just industry best practices. Best practices for how to interact with WordPress. So as a plugin you don’t want to conflict with other plugins. So there are certain best practices you can apply, like prefixing everything you put in the global namespace.\n\n\n\nAnd if you apply those correctly the chance of your plugin conflicting with another plugin and creating a widescreen of death, fatal error, for end users is a lot smaller. And WordPressCS can help with that as well and has, on the one hand, has some rules for that. On the other hand, what you then get is WordPressCS as the package, because you have the written rule, but then you also have tooling which basically takes those written rules and codifies that into automated checks. Automated checks which can be run in continuous integration.\n\n\n\nSo every time someone puts some code online those checks can be run to make sure that the code complies with the rules you’ve agreed upon. And WordPressCS is one of those packages. It’s a package which takes those rules, codifies them in automated checks and then can be run on your code. And it doesn’t just check it and point out errors, it can actually auto fix a lot as well.\n\n\n\n[00:09:29] Nathan Wrigley: So the enterprise of WPCS, and I should probably say that CS is the acronym for Code Sniffer. The enterprise is to create this suite of tests if you like, so that whilst you’re writing code, if you’re using CI, it’s constantly giving you alerts as to whether or not there’s a problem. We’ve identified that there’s a little problem here, you can take a look at it, and thereby mitigate the problems, right?\n\n\n\n[00:09:55] Juliette Reinders Folmer: It can even do it even more directly. If you use a modern IDE, individual development environment like a PHP Storm or VS Code, it can even give you those notifications while you’re coding. It integrates with that kind of tooling. So while you’re typing your code, it can fix things for you and it can notify you of the things it doesn’t fix.\n\n\n\n[00:10:19] Nathan Wrigley: So given the open source nature of WordPress, and the fact that anybody can download it and anybody can write a plugin for it, an interesting comparison would be something like the Mac App Store, or the Apple App Store where Apple, in effect, is the custodian of the code. Apple will go to great lengths to make sure that your code is compliant and it’s completely the opposite model. You put stuff into their ecosystem, they’ll do checks and make sure that it’s all compliant with oh let’s say iOS or something like that.\n\n\n\n[00:10:50] Juliette Reinders Folmer: In a way a similar situation is in place in the WordPress ecosystem at large, because if you want a plugin to be listed on wordpress.org it goes through a list of quality checks as well. And they have some specific checks from that team, but some of the checks they use also are based on WordPressCS or are from WordPressCS.\n\n\n\n[00:11:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah that’s a really good point. I was thinking also about the sort of third party plugin marketplace which exists in WordPress, into which anybody can drop their code. So it’s quite, you know, you can go to one of hundreds of thousands of websites and download a plugin which you can add to WordPress. And really there’s a bit of a gamble going on there. You’re hopefully able to determine that the code is good.\n\n\n\nBut a tool like WPCS will give you some guidance. You can run it yourself. It’s not like you have to trust the repo. If you went out and got third party plugins you could run these tests yourself. And just before we started the call, you were talking about if you were, let’s say an agency, and you had a particular need and you had three or four plugins that you thought might be useful. They would, all of them satisfy the requirements that you’ve got. But you could run them through something like WPCS, and get a real useful insight into well, whether or not they meet the standards, how compliant they are and so on.\n\n\n\n[00:12:12] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Correct. You will get some noise messages about different white space requirements, for instance. But you will also get messages about, hang on, this is not prefixed and this could conflict. Or hang on, output is not escaped. This plugin may introduce XSS security vulnerabilities. There are actual sniffs in WordPressCS which scan your code for typical attack vectors, and whether your code is well enough defensive against those attack vectors.\n\n\n\n[00:12:45] Nathan Wrigley: And I’m guessing that the enterprise of keeping WPCS maintained is like a road that you never reach the end of. You are updating it but there’s always the next change out in the, I don’t know, PHP ecosystem, which means that you can’t ever say well it’s done. Because PHP 8 comes along, then PHP 8.1 and PHP 8.2 and so we go.\n\n\n\nSo would that be fair to say? What kind of things is it sniffing for? Are we just working in the PHP space, or is it working with other things as well?\n\n\n\n[00:13:19] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Well PHP_CodeSniffer as the underlying tooling, at this point is capable of scanning PHP, CSS code and JavaScript code. For the most part WordPressCS just focuses on the PHP code, because by now if we look at the whole ecosystem in development, there is plenty of other tooling available for CSS and JavaScript. Which wasn’t available when PHP_CodeSniffer started, because this is an old project.\n\n\n\nI mean this project got started in 2005. So at that time that tooling was not available. So this was one of the only tools which could do something like this. The intention of PHP_CodeSniffer, because there’s so much other tooling available now for CSS and JavaScript, is to actually drop support for CSS and JavaScript. So with that in the back of our minds, our focus is completely on PHP.\n\n\n\n[00:14:11] Nathan Wrigley: And so getting back to the question about how this is a never ending road, I’m assuming there will have been no point in the past, or predictably in the future where you’ll be able to say, okay this is done, because there’s constant work that needs to be done because the technology, the PHP, is always adding lots and lots of different things from year to year.\n\n\n\n[00:14:34] Juliette Reinders Folmer: And it’s not just PHP. I mean if something changes in WordPress, WordPressCS needs to take that into account. For instance one of the scans is applied to plugins but also I think to WordPress Core is, are you using deprecated functions? Because those functions are deprecated for a reason. So you should use something else. There’s normally an alternative available.\n\n\n\nOr are you using particular PHP functions for which there is a WordPress alternative which should be used? So if WordPress introduces one of those alternatives then WordPressCS needs to be updated to add a new check. If WordPress deprecates functions, WordPressCS needs to be updated.\n\n\n\nOn the other hand, like you already pointed out, every year there’s a new minor release of PHP, sometimes a major. But at least every year there’s a minor and those introduce new syntaxes. And in the past three, four years PHP has introduced so many new syntaxes it became really hard to keep up. All those syntaxes mean that code can be written in different ways.\n\n\n\nAnd sniffs basically look for a certain pattern of code. But if code can now be written in a different way, that new way of writing code needs to be taken into account. To prevent false positives, as in throwing an error when there shouldn’t be an error. But also prevent false negatives, for people using the new syntax and the sniff not being able to understand it and throw the error which should be thrown.\n\n\n\nEvery single sniff basically needs to be reviewed after every PHP release, to be checked if it needs to take any of the new syntaxes into account. But before we can do that the underlying tooling needs to be updated as well, because it actually needs to recognise the new syntaxes.\n\n\n\n[00:16:26] Nathan Wrigley: So a constant study.\n\n\n\n[00:16:28] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yeah it’s a whole domino chain of things and it’s basically a circle going round, because yes, we put dominoes in place and then we managed to get things merged in PHP_CodeSniffer. Then PHPCSUtils can update, and then we can update WordPressCS. And by that time a new PHP version has come out and we can start the whole circle again.\n\n\n\n[00:16:49] Nathan Wrigley: We have this expression in the UK, “it’s like painting the Forth Bridge”. The Forth Bridge is a particularly long bridge in Scotland, and you begin painting at one end and by the time a year or so later they’ve got to the other end, well, the paint on the far end has now become corroded, and they’ve got to begin again so it’s this never ending cycle.\n\n\n\nIf you’ve heard of WPCS and have used it, I’m sure that you will recognise the utility of it. But if you haven’t, and as I said at the top of the show, I think there’s probably a lot of people listening to this who haven’t. How do we actually make use of it? How would a typical WordPress user get WPCS working, and giving them some insight into the suite of things that they’ve got in their WordPress site?\n\n\n\n[00:17:32] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Okay. Well for people who are not used to command line, this might be a bit scary. You need the command line. Then again I mean, as I said, it integrates with IDEs so you can run certain things in IDEs as well. But as a general rule of thumb if you want to scan for instance, say you’re evaluating those four plugins to find out which one you’re going to install, like the example you used earlier.\n\n\n\nThe easiest way to use WordPressCS as part of your toolset when you’re evaluating, is to do so from the command line. And that means you need PHP installed. Well if you work with WordPress you generally should probably have PHP installed. You need Composer which is a package manager in the PHP world, like npm for JavaScript but then for the PHP world.\n\n\n\nAnd then you need to install WordPressCS and that’s a Composer require. And if you don’t work with code yourself I would say use a Composer global require, then you can use it anywhere on your system without it being project specific. If you do work with code, please use it on a project basis and require it for the project, because it will also make it transparent for other contributors that you expect them to comply with WordPressCS.\n\n\n\nSo yeah, you can either install it globally or you can install it on a project base. And once you run the Composer require, it has all of that in the readme of course, so you can just copy and paste that command.\n\n\n\nOnce you run that everything is set up, and you can just run the commands to run WordPressCS which is vendor, bin, phpcs, dash dash standard is WordPress.\n\n\n\nAt the same time, most of the time, you will want to customise a little. For instance, I mentioned prefixing before to prevent conflicts with other plugins. If you want to check prefixes you need to tell WordPressCS which prefix to look for. If you don’t give it any prefixes, we cannot check whether things are prefixed. We need to know what to look for.\n\n\n\nIn the WordPressCS repo, an example rule set, which has some of the common things which you should add to a custom rule set to use. There’s also, in the wiki, quite a lot of documentation about what the various options are you can toggle on and off. That way you can set up a customer rule set and get yourself running in a more detailed way.\n\n\n\n[00:20:08] Nathan Wrigley: I suspect that the proportion of people listening to this podcast who really never look at the code, they are, I don’t know, you maybe call them implementers or something like that, might be thinking well, why does any of this matter? What is the point? And I guess that’s something that I want to tease out.\n\n\n\nI want it to be clear that unless projects like WPCS occur and continue to occur, the bedrock of the software, which we’re all using for free, gratis, is not going to be something that you can trust as much, I guess.\n\n\n\nSo I don’t know if there’s anything you want to throw into the mix there. If somebody was to come to you and say well I just use WordPress, why should I care about this? Why is this of interest to me? It’s a bit like, if I never go to a hospital, it’s not well we shouldn’t have hospitals because I’m perfectly well. Something along those lines.\n\n\n\n[00:21:01] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yeah, well if your site’s never been hacked that’s the same comparison. Your site’s never been hacked. So why do we need security checks and security reviews?\n\n\n\n[00:21:10] Nathan Wrigley: So what would be the single, or maybe a couple of messages that you would tell people, this is why what I’m doing matters. This is why we all need to know that this project exists, and that it’s important.\n\n\n\n[00:21:23] Juliette Reinders Folmer: There’s different answers for different levels. So for developers it definitely makes it easier for them to be high productive. Because if code is consistent it makes it easier to work with, to know the expectations, to review code, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s a productivity tool for them, including the auto fixing.\n\n\n\nSome of the changes which may need to be done, if you’d need to do those manually that would take you like a week or two weeks. And if you use the auto fixer, it’s done in five minutes for you. So that is literally two weeks of work saved. That’s on the development level and the management, the IT department level.\n\n\n\nIf you are an agency who normally doesn’t use code, it’s more about, okay if I install this plugin, will it cause problems with other plugins? Will it cause problems for WordPress Core? Because there are plugins which will gladly override a global variable from WordPress Core and then WordPress Core breaks.\n\n\n\nWordPressCS has checks against stuff like that. I already mentioned the conflict. If there’s two functions in two different plugins which use the same name, you have a fatal error and a white screen of death. Do you want your customer to get a white screen of death? No you don’t. So this tooling can help guard against that, can help prevent those kind of situations from happening.\n\n\n\n[00:22:52] Nathan Wrigley: So I’m going to go back to the piece on the WP Tavern. I’m going to read the title again because I think it’s important for the next part of our discussion. WordPress Coding Standards maintainer warns maintenance will be halted without funding, this is an unsustainable situation.\n\n\n\nSo the person that is referenced in that article is you. You’ve obviously decided that this is an unsustainable situation. I think we’ve painted a picture as to why WPCS is an incredibly useful thing to have around. But i’m keen to know exactly how many people get their hands in the weeds with that tool? How many people do you have on your air quotes team? How many hours are contributed by those people per month, per year, whatever? Just give us an inkling as to how much goes into this important project.\n\n\n\n[00:23:42] Juliette Reinders Folmer: As I already mentioned, WordPressCS is not a completely standalone tool. It is built on the shoulders of giants. The underlying tool, PHP_CodeSniffer, needs to be maintained primarily before we can even do anything in WordPressCS. That tool currently has two maintainers and I’m one of them.\n\n\n\nThere are outside contributors, and quite regularly we get an outside contributor with a pull request. But if you look at the bulk, to be honest, I don’t think I’m saying anything silly if I say that for the past few years a lot of that has come down to me. So that is the biggest giant we’re standing on.\n\n\n\nThen we have PHPCSUtils which is a layer on top of PHP_CodeSniffer which makes writing sniffs easier. Because writing sniffs can be pretty complex with all the syntaxes you have to take into account. Maintained by me, completely.\n\n\n\nThen we have PHPCSExtra, which is an external standard which WordPressCS uses quite a few sniffs from. About, I think more than 50% of the sniffs from PHPCSExtra are used in WordPressCS 3. Again, I’m the maintainer.\n\n\n\nRemember that I mentioned that you install everything via Composer? There’s a Composer plugin which makes sure that all those external standards get registered with PHP_CodeSniffer. I maintain that together with one other person.\n\n\n\nAnd then we have WordPressCS itself. And we have a maintainer team of three people. I’m really, really happy that there’s three of us. At the same time the majority of the actual code work comes down to me. Dennis would love to spend more time, but he hasn’t got the financial safety net to be able to do so without funding. Gary hasn’t got the time to do so anyway.\n\n\n\nSo I’m really happy with Gary and Dennis’s support, and for all the code review they do. But if we actually look at the code changes, nearly everything comes down to me.\n\n\n\n[00:25:45] Nathan Wrigley: So we’re painting a picture here, and it’s a funny phrase to bring out but there’s this idea of the bus factor. And the bus factor is the idea that if, sadly, somebody was to be hit by a bus, and they were no longer able to contribute to the project. The bus factor being one is indicative that you only need to have one person removed from the project for the whole thing essentially to collapse.\n\n\n\nAnd that’s basically what we’ve got here. We’ve got a situation where you are maintaining an awful lot of what you’ve just described, and you’re doing it, well, gratis. You’re doing it largely I’m imagining, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, you’re doing this in your own time for no financial benefit.\n\n\n\nAnd I guess one of the things that’s come out of the article is that having done this for so many years, and contributed so many hours of your own time, you’ve reached the end of the road potentially about that and you feel that this situation is no longer sustainable. It’s a bit of a plea for help?\n\n\n\n[00:26:56] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yes. I mean basically over the past two years this has dominated my daily life, in a way which isn’t healthy anymore. It’s not you know a nice side project anymore. No, it’s literally what I spend nearly all my time on. And I’m lucky that I have a few stable customers where I can scrounge some hours here and there to be able to actually pay for my bread at the supermarket.\n\n\n\nThe balance is completely wrong now.. And I’m not alone. I mean this is valid for a lot of open source projects. But we’ve reached a point that the balance is so far off that this is just not sustainable anymore. I cannot afford to do this anymore. I cannot justify doing this anymore.\n\n\n\n[00:27:44] Nathan Wrigley: Forgive me asking this question, and I hope it doesn’t come out the way that it might, but I’m going to ask it anyway. Do you have regrets around the amount of time that you’ve contributed over the past? So you mentioned that it’s requiring lots and lots of your time, and you’re basically doing this as a, almost like a full time job really.\n\n\n\nDo you have any regrets getting into 2023 and that situation being the way it was? Or do you wish that you’d have managed to have this inspiration, if you like, this epiphany about enough is enough, a few years ago?\n\n\n\n[00:28:18] Juliette Reinders Folmer: When it’s enough I say so. It’s felt like it’s been enough for about a year, and a large part of that is the fact that, in my perception, I think there’s a disconnect between the open source user nowadays and open source maintainers.\n\n\n\nOpen source users often don’t realise there’s no funding. They are not the product. And they come in with a sense of entitlements, and a sense of pressure which is being put on maintainers to release, and yes but you should do this. No, I shouldn’t do this. I’m doing this out of the kindness of my heart, and you should be a lot kinder to me if you want to make any suggestions for the project.\n\n\n\n[00:29:01] Nathan Wrigley: Can I just clarify, have you been at the receiving end then of things which you, in the way that you’ve described, you’ve had requests in well let’s not beat around the bush, less than polite, shall we put it that way?\n\n\n\n[00:29:13] Juliette Reinders Folmer: We actually at some point had to put, in a hurry, a code of conduct into the project. And we couldn’t wait for the WordPress project to get themselves sorted with a code of conduct, because we had an abusive user which was really going way too far.\n\n\n\n[00:29:28] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I mean like you said, I think the word surrounding that is entitlement, isn’t it? Somebody who believes that it is your role. You have become the person doing this and so well it must now be what Juliette does. Juliette must fix it at the moment anything needs fixing. And of course I think you’ve reached the end of the road there, and you’ve decided that enough is enough.\n\n\n\nDoes that mean that you are, well, let’s examine what that means. Let’s throw out a few scenarios. Does it mean that you would like more maintainers, so that you can step away from the project? Or is there a different possible outcome here where you would love to be continuing to work on this, but there needs to be some way of putting food on the table, i.e. payment in exchange for your time here? So I guess both of those options could coexist at the same time.\n\n\n\n[00:30:16] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Yes, and that would be the ideal situation because the thing is, it would be great if we could get more maintainers interested and more people be willing to contribute structurally to the project. Except this type of work has quite a steep learning curve. So to get to the point where you can function as a maintainer for a project like this, and actually take it seriously in the way it’s been taken seriously over the past few years, that will require quite a lot of coaching, and guess who’s doing the coaching then.\n\n\n\n[00:30:49] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So let’s ask that slightly different question. Over the past several years, have you had people go through the project? You know, that they’re interested in it, but they don’t stick around or is it literally that the door is open but nobody ever steps through it?\n\n\n\n[00:31:04] Juliette Reinders Folmer: There’s a number of different types of contributors. You have the drive by contributor. We will say okay, we have this sniff which we use in our own company, I’m going to throw it into PR and just drop it in the WordPressCS repo, because it could be useful for other people.\n\n\n\nYou do an extensive review and give them feedback of you know, this needs changing that need changing. Because if you use it in your own company you can take some liberties because you know what the agreements are, what code is based on in that company. Except you can’t take those liberties with a project which has this many users as WordPressCS. So we require a higher quality. And the drive by contributor will just not respond to that review at all, and just let the PR rot and die. So that’s the one.\n\n\n\nThen you have, and I’ve seen two, three people over the past five years maybe in WordPressCS like that, will come in and actually understand what they’re doing and how to do a PR. But then don’t have enough time or have a family, have a job and their employer doesn’t allow them to contribute to open source regularly, et cetera. Or they get moved into a different position in their job, and then don’t have time anymore.\n\n\n\nThose are like the little jewels which I’d like to hold onto, and cherish and cuddle and watch to flourish in the project. Except they are rare and unfortunately we rarely manage to retain them.\n\n\n\nAnd then you have the, oh gosh how should I call it? What’s that called again? That month of code thingy, Oktoberfest. Yeah, I’m going to make a one character change in your readme. Let’s waste maintainers time, kind of PRs. Just so they can get a t shirt kind of thing.\n\n\n\nThere’s a couple of different types of contributors. A lot of contributors, or people I talk with, will say like, oh I’d love to contribute. I’m going to write a new sniff. And I’m like okay but do you actually know what you’re doing already? No, you don’t. Okay. So now you’re going to write a new sniff, and that needs a lot of coaching to get to a point where it’s actually mergeable. Instead of helping with the grunge work which needs to be done every time, every year, at every WordPress release, every PHP release. And actually learning from the patterns you see in others existing code.\n\n\n\nAnd I know that the grunge work is boring, but it needs to be done, and we need people who will put up with the grunge work because otherwise the code base will just grow with new sniffs but nobody’s maintaining.\n\n\n\n[00:33:47] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So I guess what we’re discovering here is, A the project is important. B there’s not many people meaningfully contributing to it, apart from the ones that you mentioned including yourself. I think you mentioned two other people.\n\n\n\n[00:34:02] Juliette Reinders Folmer: We do get some contributions which are meaningful, absolutely. I’m not dissing that at all. But it’s the exception not the rule, in my experience. And that’s a shame. I mean I really would love to see more meaningful contributions.\n\n\n\n[00:34:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah okay. Thank you for clarifying that. That’s good. But it also sounds as if you’re not quite at the point where you want to completely distance yourself from this project and never touch it again. I think I’m right in saying that a possible desirable outcome would be that you found a way to make this work for your setup.\n\n\n\nAnd really what I’m talking about there is finance. Am I right in saying that you would continue this work if you were able to make it a job, if you like, and be paid for it?\n\n\n\n[00:34:49] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Absolutely. I mean I enjoy this kind of work. That’s obvious otherwise I wouldn’t have gotten involved in the whole stack, and even projects related to which I haven’t even mentioned yet. I do enjoy this kind of work, but I do not enjoy the abuse, and the abuse is something I will not put up with anymore. Only ever put up with if it’s paid, if I get paid for it.\n\n\n\n[00:35:11] Nathan Wrigley: So since the article was published on the Tavern, so we’re recording this just for context kind of probably about 20 plus days since that piece was published. There were a lot of comments, an unusually large amount of comments. So this topic is of great interest to people. And I wondered, given that there was great interest and a large amount of comments there, I wondered if anybody had figured out what your requirement was, and had approached you. In other words has anything changed or is it still the way it was?\n\n\n\n[00:35:42] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I can see some parties being interested in contributing to a solution, but I’ve not seen a solution yet. But one of the things which has changed, and which I think is an improvement, and i’m really hoping that will allow people to contribute to the funding of the project, is that the WPCC has in their open collective, has opened a project for WordPressCS and the stack around it, to raise funding for that.\n\n\n\n[00:36:15] Nathan Wrigley: So just for clarity, the WPCC is the WordPress Community Collective. And what you can do is you can go over there and they have a handful, at the moment, of projects which you can donate to. And it looks like you have been added to that, or at least the WPCS project has been.\n\n\n\nDo you have an amount, like a target that you want to get to in order for this to be possible for you? Or is it more a, well let’s just see where this goes, and bit of blue sky thinking, hopefully some people will help me out?\n\n\n\n[00:36:45] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I have a target in mind. I’m not comfortable calling that out on air though.\n\n\n\n[00:36:48] Nathan Wrigley: No that’s fine. So that’s where we’re at. As of the 5th of September 2023, we’ve got this incredibly important project which underpins the sort of security, the confidence that you can have in WordPress and the plugin ecosystem surrounding it. But we’ve got this one or two or three, but largely one person maintaining that entire project. But it looks as if, unless something radically changes in the near future, as if that whole edifice might tumble. How much more time are you going to give this before you actually finally call it a day? Maybe that’s not even in your thinking, and maybe it’s you know you’re hoping that it will change\n\n\n\n[00:37:29] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Well I’m definitely hoping it will change. As a rule of thumb I’m basically not touching the code anymore. Not until there is sight of a solution.\n\n\n\nWordPressCS is definitely not an exception. I mean I know open source projects where there’s much bigger problems with abuse than in WordPressCS. I’ve known people who’ve had death threats in their DMs, et cetera, et cetera. That open source and abuse is a whole different topic, but it’s definitely not isolated to WordPressCS. And WordPressCS need for funding is also not isolated. I mean the accessibility project also needs funding. There’s other projects in the periphery of WordPress which could do with funding.\n\n\n\nI think that it’s very easy for people to think, like okay but WordPress is open source and yeah there’s some big companies earning money so they should pay for everything. I do not agree. I think we should as companies which earn money from WordPress, that all those companies should get together in something like the WordPress Community Collective and fund those projects.\n\n\n\nIt shouldn’t come down to one or two of the bigger ones. It should come down to all of us because all of us are making money off it. Well all of you, because I’m not.\n\n\n\n[00:38:48] Nathan Wrigley: Obviously the nuts and the bolts of that mechanism, the bits and the pieces that would need to be configured to make that work, i’ve come across that project yet. But that is a really interesting idea, isn’t it? The idea that there’d be somewhere, and the WPCC does seem the best bet we’ve got at the moment.\n\n\n\nIt feels a little bit like five for the future or something like that. But instead of it being time, it’s, okay we’re a big company we make money off these things. We use PHP, we use the code sniffing, we do these plugins that are open source and so on. So let’s just put our flag in the sand and say we’ll donate 5% of our resources, and then that organisation, whatever it was, the WPCC or something else that’s new, could then distribute those resources and people like you could dip into that pool. That seems eminently sensible.\n\n\n\n[00:39:36] Juliette Reinders Folmer: I’ve written about this years ago already. It’s also about business risk. If you run a business which is built on an open source project, and you do not contribute back financially, as well as with people. You run business on quicksand. You are literally running it on quicksand. Any corporate audit type of your company will say you’ve got an unmitigated business risk.\n\n\n\nYou have risk that those projects which you’re not contributing to, which you’re not paying for, for which don’t have a service contract, are just going to go unmaintained. And you are so dependent on these projects, you should mitigate that business risk. And one way of doing that is with funding. Another way is with resources, and preferably with both.\n\n\n\nAnd it’s not just WordPress yes, it’s all the open source projects in the stack. Go through the whole stack. You have PHP Units probably in your stack. You have Apache in your stack. You have a Chrome browser in which you test things in your stack.\n\n\n\nAnd Chrome, yes, everyone associates it with Google, but it’s built on top of Chromium which is open source. You might use Mastodon as a communication channel. Make sure you also fund your Mastodon instance. It’s the whole stack of all those open source projects which need funding. So go through your stack. Do a proper inventory and fund them. This is the only way to mitigate the business risk all of those companies are running.\n\n\n\n[00:41:05] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I think you’ve made a really compelling case for this. In that, A, we’ve painted the picture of what it is that you’re involved in, and how important it is as a real bedrock of reliance and the ability for us to be confident in WordPress. And then we’ve also painted the picture of how the underpinnings of that aren’t very stable. Because all of us, unless we’re incredibly lucky, have to put food on the table and we have to be paid for our work.\n\n\n\nAnd it does sound like the balance, certainly in your case, has gone really far in one direction, and you are the single biggest contributor to that project. And so it makes it all the more important that something like this gets funded, however that may be.\n\n\n\nNow if you happen to be listening to this podcast and you feel that you are able to change the direction here. Juliette, what would be the best way? It sounds like WPCC, which I’ll link to in the show notes, may be the best way at the moment. But I don’t know if you’ve got any other intuitions about how this project might be helped.\n\n\n\n[00:42:07] Juliette Reinders Folmer: Companies can always reach out to me, DM me, Slack, or DM the maintainers as a collective. Gary, Dennis, and me on the WordPress slack. Open Collective is definitely welcome to receive funding for us. Keep in mind, I look towards the companies. I do not look to individual developers to fund this. Because, yes, they feel it most if projects like this don’t continue. But they are the ones we should talk to management and tell management to fund it, because it shouldn’t come down to individual developers. And one time contributions are very welcome, but recurring contributions are what keeps the project alive.\n\n\n\n[00:42:48] Nathan Wrigley: Well let’s hope that there’s somebody listening to this for whom it has raised awareness enough. Let’s hope that we can come back in a year’s time, do another podcast episode and we’ll be talking about a different setup. Let’s hope that that’s the case.\n\n\n\nJuliette, I really appreciate you being on the podcast today, and telling us an awful lot about your personal circumstance and things. So I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.\n\n\n\n[00:43:11] Juliette Reinders Folmer: You’re very welcome. I enjoyed being here, and hopefully my bakery around the corner will enjoy it soon as well, because I can then actually start paying them.\n\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Juliette Reinders Folmer.\n\n\n\nJuliette is a highly experienced professional in the field of coding standards. With a deep understanding of industry best practices, she has dedicated herself for many years to ensuring code quality, and consistency within WordPress.\n\n\n\nJuliette acknowledges that coding standards encompass more than just formatting and white space, they also play a crucial role in maintaining compatibility and preventing conflicts between plugins. By adhering to these standards, developers can minimise errors and fatal issues for end users. To facilitate the implementation of coding standards, Juliette talks about the importance of automated checks and continuous integration.\n\n\n\nWe chat about her commitment to WordPress coding standards, and how the work that she\u2019s done in this field have made her a trusted authority. Through her contributions and guidance, she has helped countless developers enhance their code quality, ultimately improving the overall WordPress ecosystem.\n\n\n\nWe talk about Juliette\u2019s role as one of the maintainers of WordPress Coding Standards (WordPress CS), discussing the importance of consistent code, and the challenges of maintaining and funding open source projects.\n\n\n\nClearly, there\u2019s great value in tools like WordPress CS. Consistency is key for developers, and using a tool like WordPress CS makes it easier for them to meet expectations and be productive. It saves time by automating manual changes, and helps prevent conflicts and potential problems with other plugins or WordPress Core. Juliette emphasises the continuous nature of the project, where updates to a variety of PHP projects need to be kept in sync with the WordPress side of things.\n\n\n\nAll that said, maintaining open source projects like WordPress CS comes with its challenges. Juliette tells us about the importance of financial support and adequate resources to mitigate business risk, as projects that go unmaintained can create dependency issues and pose problems during corporate audits. She speaks openly about her recent decision to step away from contributing. The project is so crucial, but underfunded, and Juliette thinks it\u2019s time to draw a line in the sand. It\u2019s time for contributions in return for payment.\n\n\n\nIt’s not just about financial contributions though. Juliette asks us to support the WordPress Community Collective, and for us all to explore other ways to assist the project. She highlights the need for all companies benefiting from WordPress to contribute towards funding more broadly, rather than relying on one or two of the larger companies in the space.\n\n\n\nIf you\u2019re a contributor who has even pondered how much WordPress relies on volunteers, this podcast is for you.\n\n\n\nUseful links.\n\n\n\nWordPress Coding Standards Maintainer Warns Maintenance Will Be Halted Without Funding: \u201cThis Is an Unsustainable Situation.\u201d\n\n\n\nWordPressCS\n\n\n\nPHP Storm\n\n\n\nVS Code\n\n\n\nPHPCSUtils\n\n\n\nComposer\n\n\n\nThe WP Community Collective", "date_published": "2023-09-27T10:00:00-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-27T05:53:50-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/92-Juliette-Reinders-Folmer-on-When-Contributions-Need-to-Be-Paid.jpeg", "tags": [ "contributing", "podcast", "WordPressCS" ], "summary": "On the podcast today we have Juliette Reinders Folmer. Juliette is a highly experienced professional in the field of coding standards. With a deep understanding of industry best practices, she has dedicated herself for many years to ensuring code quality, and consistency within WordPress. Juliette acknowledges that coding standards encompass more than just formatting and white space, they also play a crucial role in maintaining compatibility and preventing conflicts between plugins. We chat about her commitment to WordPress coding standards, and how the work that she\u2019s done in this field have made her a trusted authority. Through her contributions and guidance, she has helped countless developers enhance their code quality, ultimately improving the overall WordPress ecosystem. Maintaining open source projects like WordPress CS comes with its challenges. Juliette tells us about the importance of financial support and adequate resources to mitigate business risk, as projects that go unmaintained can create dependency issues and pose problems during corporate audits. She speaks openly about her recent decision to step away from contributing. The project is so crucial, but underfunded, and Juliette thinks it\u2019s time to draw a line in the sand. It\u2019s time for contributions in return for payment.", "attachments": [ { "url": "https://episodes.castos.com/601a97348e9993-63339407/7d92c25b-4021-4b86-9047-0fd94dd6d2ab-92-Juliette-Reinders-Folmer-on-When-Contributions-Need-to-Be-Paid.mp3", "mime_type": "", "size_in_bytes": 0 } ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149512", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-4-beta-1-released", "title": "WordPress 6.4 Beta 1 Released", "content_html": "\n

WordPress 6.4 Beta 1 was released today on schedule, led by an underrepresented gender release squad. It includes the last five releases of the Gutenberg plugin (16.2,\u00a016.3,\u00a016.4,\u00a016.5,\u00a016.6) along with the upcoming 16.7 release and 190 tickets for core.

\n\n\n\n

If you are following Gutenberg development, many of these features have already been released in the plugin. The most notable highlights of features and improvements coming in 6.4 include the following:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

WordPress 6.4 will also include many accessibility and performance improvements that will improve workflows and speed for all users of both Block and Classic Themes. A detailed testing guide is available that covers all the key features and how to test them, with video demos for each.

\n\n\n\n

Beta 2 is expected on October 3. WordPress 6.4 will be the third major release of 2023, and is scheduled for November 7.

\n", "content_text": "WordPress 6.4 Beta 1 was released today on schedule, led by an underrepresented gender release squad. It includes the last five releases of the Gutenberg plugin (16.2,\u00a016.3,\u00a016.4,\u00a016.5,\u00a016.6) along with the upcoming 16.7 release and 190 tickets for core.\n\n\n\nIf you are following Gutenberg development, many of these features have already been released in the plugin. The most notable highlights of features and improvements coming in 6.4 include the following:\n\n\n\n\nFont Management – allows users to manage a font library independent of their active theme, along with Font Face support for server-side\u00a0@font-face\u00a0style generation and printing\n\n\n\nBlock Hooks – enables developers to automatically insert blocks into content relative to another block\n\n\n\nLightbox for Images – core support for lightbox functionality for image blocks\n\n\n\nExpanded Design Tools – background images for Group blocks, aspect ratios for image placeholders, alignment settings for synced patterns, and more\n\n\n\nCommand Palette updates – improved design, new commands, better consistency across existing commands\n\n\n\nList view enhancements – usability improvements allow for renaming Group blocks, viewing media previews for Gallery and Image blocks, and duplicating blocks with a keyboard shortcut\n\n\n\nNew Twenty Twenty-Four default theme – a multipurpose block theme that will ship with a collection of templates and patterns that lend themselves to a wide variety of use cases. See a demo at 2024.wordpress.net.\n\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.4 will also include many accessibility and performance improvements that will improve workflows and speed for all users of both Block and Classic Themes. A detailed testing guide is available that covers all the key features and how to test them, with video demos for each.\n\n\n\nBeta 2 is expected on October 3. WordPress 6.4 will be the third major release of 2023, and is scheduled for November 7.", "date_published": "2023-09-26T23:04:37-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-26T23:04:39-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/32594098207_d40ba35451_k.jpg", "tags": [ "News", "WordPress" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149493", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-expands-two-factor-authentication-interface-to-include-security-keys", "title": "WordPress.org Expands Two-Factor Authentication Interface to Include Security Keys", "content_html": "\n

WordPress.org began testing two-factor authentication (2FA) as an opt-in feature in May 2023. The interface and functionality are still in beta but it’s operational. This week contributors have expanded support for 2FA with a new interface for adding security keys, which are more secure than the one-time passwords.

\n\n\n\n

A logged in user can set up the keys by visiting their WordPress.org profile, scrolling down to the “Security” section, and clicking on the support forum profile link.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

Users who have two-factor authentication set up can click on “Two-Factor Security Key” and follow the instructions to set them up.

\n\n\n\n

This update to the interface also adds Time-Based One-Time Passwords\u00a0(TOTP), which are generated from the user’s chosen authentication app on their device and changed every 30 seconds. WordPress.org currently defaults to using security keys over the time-based on-time passwords, but contributors are working on making that configurable in the future.

\n\n\n\n

Additions to the interface also include the ability to generate backup codes, which enable access when users don’t have their 2FA security key or app configured. The backup codes come with a note of caution from Automattic- sponsored Meta contributor Steve Dufresne, who has been working on the 2FA project:

\n\n\n\n
\n

Regardless of whether you are using security keys or a Time-Based One-Time password,\u00a0make sure you generate and print backup codes. If you lose your primary key/device and don\u2019t have a backup code, you will lose access to your account forever.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Dufresne encouraged WordPress.org users who haven’t set up 2FA to go ahead and do so. Any bugs can be reported to the project’s\u00a0GitHub repository.

\n", "content_text": "WordPress.org began testing two-factor authentication (2FA) as an opt-in feature in May 2023. The interface and functionality are still in beta but it’s operational. This week contributors have expanded support for 2FA with a new interface for adding security keys, which are more secure than the one-time passwords.\n\n\n\nA logged in user can set up the keys by visiting their WordPress.org profile, scrolling down to the “Security” section, and clicking on the support forum profile link. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nUsers who have two-factor authentication set up can click on “Two-Factor Security Key” and follow the instructions to set them up. \n\n\n\nThis update to the interface also adds Time-Based One-Time Passwords\u00a0(TOTP), which are generated from the user’s chosen authentication app on their device and changed every 30 seconds. WordPress.org currently defaults to using security keys over the time-based on-time passwords, but contributors are working on making that configurable in the future.\n\n\n\nAdditions to the interface also include the ability to generate backup codes, which enable access when users don’t have their 2FA security key or app configured. The backup codes come with a note of caution from Automattic- sponsored Meta contributor Steve Dufresne, who has been working on the 2FA project:\n\n\n\n\nRegardless of whether you are using security keys or a Time-Based One-Time password,\u00a0make sure you generate and print backup codes. If you lose your primary key/device and don\u2019t have a backup code, you will lose access to your account forever.\n\n\n\n\nDufresne encouraged WordPress.org users who haven’t set up 2FA to go ahead and do so. Any bugs can be reported to the project’s\u00a0GitHub repository.", "date_published": "2023-09-26T17:02:22-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-26T17:02:24-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/keys.jpeg", "tags": [ "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149460", "url": "https://wptavern.com/matthaus-klute-acquires-social-link-pages-plugin", "title": "Matthaus Klute Acquires Social Link Pages Plugin", "content_html": "\n

WordPress developer Corey Maass has sold his Social Link Pages plugin to Matthaus Klute, an independent WordPress consultant and developer with Alpha Particle. It’s another story of small plugins changing hands, where developers get the opportunity to test ideas and business models. Even the most modest creations have value in a thriving marketplace where business owners are willing to invest in these types of assets to expand their own offerings.

\n\n\n\n

In 2019, Maass created Social Link Pages after taking a course on how to market himself as a musician and DJ. The course required him to sign up for\u00a0Linktr.ee, a popular “link in bio” landing page service.

\n\n\n\n

“In typical developer fashion, instead of paying $8 a month, I thought ‘I should build this,'” Maass said. “So I spent hundreds of hours building Social Link Pages for WordPress.”

\n\n\n\n

Initially, Maass built the free version with most of the basic bells and whistles found in other link-in-bio page builders. After getting some pushback from the Plugin Review team, who Maass said were “skeptical about why we needed a ‘mini WordPress inside WordPress,’ the Social Link Pages plugin was approved for the directory.

\n\n\n\n

Over the next year he added features that he needed while figuring out the right extras for a Pro version.

\n\n\n\n

“Along the way, a user contacted me, asking if the plug-in could be white-labeled and used to build her own SaaS,” Maass said. “Shortly thereafter I released the Pro and Community (i.e. SaaS) versions of the plugin.

\n\n\n\n

“Then I took a day job and stopped working on it for about a year and a half. I took the commercial versions offline. I barely looked at the plugin because there were almost no support requests.”

\n\n\n\n

When Maass’ day job ended 18 months later, he went back to the plugin and was pleasantly surprised to find it had 1,000 active installs. This encouraged him to make some major updates and add new features.

\n\n\n\n

The first marketing effort he made was to put Social Link Pages on AppSumo. At that time they were just opening up their marketplace.

\n\n\n\n

“In the marketplace, you don’t benefit from AppSumo’s larger email campaigns, but I think Social Link Pages got a lot of eyes from people looking for good lifetime deals,” Maass said. “I sold about 80-lifetime licenses and was surprised to find that only two or three were ever actually claimed. I’ve since heard of other plugin developers who have had the same experience. Apparently, a lot of people collect lifetime deals, but never actually use them. So in the end it was free money.”

\n\n\n\n

Over the next few years, Maass continued to add features but his interest was waning.

\n\n\n\n

“The plugin did what I needed on my own sites, so I was not inspired to keep adding features just because I could,” he said. “I also saw a lot of new link-in-bio apps come online, though none were specific to WordPress. And I wanted to move on to new ideas.”

\n\n\n\n

At the beginning of 2023, while considering all of his projects, Maass said he “could not find the willpower to market Social Link Pages as it should be.” He knew he was no longer the best owner for the plugin, so he listed it on a couple of sites dedicated to selling small software products.

\n\n\n\n

Social Links Plugin Sells for $3K

\n\n\n\n

“I’d always heard the correct pricing for a software product is 12-18 months of revenue,” Maass said. “Social Link Pages was only making about $125 per month at the time, but I was selling a complete business, already set up with e-commerce, multiple products, email automation, and more.

\n\n\n\n

“I listed it at $5000. I heard from a dozen or so potential buyers, all of whom asked for charts and spreadsheets I did not have. I’m a developer and guilty of ignoring a lot of the standard sales and ‘biz dev’ practices. As I was asking too much based on what was ‘on paper,’ I did not find a buyer. I unlisted Social Link Pages, figuring I’d try again in the future.”

\n\n\n\n

Maass tried again in the summer, listing the plugin in Post Status and a couple of other solopreneur-focused communities. He also dropped the price to $3,000.

\n\n\n\n

“Immediately I heard from a number of interested buyers who saw the value in what I was selling,” Maass said.” I probably could’ve brought the price back up to $5000 again, but I wanted to see the plugin go to a new, better owner.”

\n\n\n\n

Two years ago, Maass sold his Kanban for WordPress plugin to Keanan Koppenhaver at Alpha Particle. After discussing with Matthaus Klute, a developer who works with Koppenhaver, Maass knew he had found the right buyer.

\n\n\n\n

“He’s a thoughtful developer with WordPress experience interested in building a product business,” Maass said. “We met up in person at WordCamp US in DC in August 2023, and spent a few hours moving all accounts to his name and getting him set up. It was a fun experience to do in person.”

\n\n\n\n

Klute said Maass came to him highly recommended from others who had purchased plugins from him in the past. After he spoke with his lawyer, they proceeded to do an in-person asset transfer at WordCamp US (WCUS).

\n\n\n\n

“I wasn\u2019t actively shopping for a plugin, however I\u2019ve always had a passing interest in asset and/or small businesses acquisitions,” Klute said. “Corey’s plugin caught my attention for several reasons. It fit well within my budget, boasted an active user base, and generated consistent recurring revenue.

\n\n\n\n

“With my 9 -5 spent coding, the prospect of having an existing solution that I could focus on marketing rather than building was enticing. Lastly, I wanted to gain a deeper understanding of the plugin ecosystem.”

\n\n\n\n

Klute said Maass’s experience played a crucial role in ensuring a smooth transfer. He had all the plugin’s accounts and services separated from his other entities, making it easily transferable. While at WCUS, they conducted a few Zoom sessions to explore the plugin’s codebase in-depth.

\n\n\n\n

“Despite the focus on marketing, I do have a few ideas for the plugin roadmap,” Klute said. “I’m looking at the possibility of a digital business card functionality similar to Blinq and also exploring ways to enhance the plugin\u2019s compatibility with WooCommerce for my dynamic shop functionality for e-commerce businesses.”

\n", "content_text": "WordPress developer Corey Maass has sold his Social Link Pages plugin to Matthaus Klute, an independent WordPress consultant and developer with Alpha Particle. It’s another story of small plugins changing hands, where developers get the opportunity to test ideas and business models. Even the most modest creations have value in a thriving marketplace where business owners are willing to invest in these types of assets to expand their own offerings.\n\n\n\nIn 2019, Maass created Social Link Pages after taking a course on how to market himself as a musician and DJ. The course required him to sign up for\u00a0Linktr.ee, a popular “link in bio” landing page service.\n\n\n\n“In typical developer fashion, instead of paying $8 a month, I thought ‘I should build this,'” Maass said. “So I spent hundreds of hours building Social Link Pages for WordPress.”\n\n\n\nInitially, Maass built the free version with most of the basic bells and whistles found in other link-in-bio page builders. After getting some pushback from the Plugin Review team, who Maass said were “skeptical about why we needed a ‘mini WordPress inside WordPress,’ the Social Link Pages plugin was approved for the directory.\n\n\n\nOver the next year he added features that he needed while figuring out the right extras for a Pro version. \n\n\n\n“Along the way, a user contacted me, asking if the plug-in could be white-labeled and used to build her own SaaS,” Maass said. “Shortly thereafter I released the Pro and Community (i.e. SaaS) versions of the plugin.\n\n\n\n“Then I took a day job and stopped working on it for about a year and a half. I took the commercial versions offline. I barely looked at the plugin because there were almost no support requests.”\n\n\n\nWhen Maass’ day job ended 18 months later, he went back to the plugin and was pleasantly surprised to find it had 1,000 active installs. This encouraged him to make some major updates and add new features.\n\n\n\nThe first marketing effort he made was to put Social Link Pages on AppSumo. At that time they were just opening up their marketplace.\n\n\n\n“In the marketplace, you don’t benefit from AppSumo’s larger email campaigns, but I think Social Link Pages got a lot of eyes from people looking for good lifetime deals,” Maass said. “I sold about 80-lifetime licenses and was surprised to find that only two or three were ever actually claimed. I’ve since heard of other plugin developers who have had the same experience. Apparently, a lot of people collect lifetime deals, but never actually use them. So in the end it was free money.”\n\n\n\nOver the next few years, Maass continued to add features but his interest was waning. \n\n\n\n“The plugin did what I needed on my own sites, so I was not inspired to keep adding features just because I could,” he said. “I also saw a lot of new link-in-bio apps come online, though none were specific to WordPress. And I wanted to move on to new ideas.”\n\n\n\nAt the beginning of 2023, while considering all of his projects, Maass said he “could not find the willpower to market Social Link Pages as it should be.” He knew he was no longer the best owner for the plugin, so he listed it on a couple of sites dedicated to selling small software products.\n\n\n\nSocial Links Plugin Sells for $3K\n\n\n\n“I’d always heard the correct pricing for a software product is 12-18 months of revenue,” Maass said. “Social Link Pages was only making about $125 per month at the time, but I was selling a complete business, already set up with e-commerce, multiple products, email automation, and more.\n\n\n\n“I listed it at $5000. I heard from a dozen or so potential buyers, all of whom asked for charts and spreadsheets I did not have. I’m a developer and guilty of ignoring a lot of the standard sales and ‘biz dev’ practices. As I was asking too much based on what was ‘on paper,’ I did not find a buyer. I unlisted Social Link Pages, figuring I’d try again in the future.”\n\n\n\nMaass tried again in the summer, listing the plugin in Post Status and a couple of other solopreneur-focused communities. He also dropped the price to $3,000. \n\n\n\n“Immediately I heard from a number of interested buyers who saw the value in what I was selling,” Maass said.” I probably could’ve brought the price back up to $5000 again, but I wanted to see the plugin go to a new, better owner.”\n\n\n\nTwo years ago, Maass sold his Kanban for WordPress plugin to Keanan Koppenhaver at Alpha Particle. After discussing with Matthaus Klute, a developer who works with Koppenhaver, Maass knew he had found the right buyer. \n\n\n\n“He’s a thoughtful developer with WordPress experience interested in building a product business,” Maass said. “We met up in person at WordCamp US in DC in August 2023, and spent a few hours moving all accounts to his name and getting him set up. It was a fun experience to do in person.”\n\n\n\nKlute said Maass came to him highly recommended from others who had purchased plugins from him in the past. After he spoke with his lawyer, they proceeded to do an in-person asset transfer at WordCamp US (WCUS).\n\n\n\n“I wasn\u2019t actively shopping for a plugin, however I\u2019ve always had a passing interest in asset and/or small businesses acquisitions,” Klute said. “Corey’s plugin caught my attention for several reasons. It fit well within my budget, boasted an active user base, and generated consistent recurring revenue. \n\n\n\n“With my 9 -5 spent coding, the prospect of having an existing solution that I could focus on marketing rather than building was enticing. Lastly, I wanted to gain a deeper understanding of the plugin ecosystem.”\n\n\n\nKlute said Maass’s experience played a crucial role in ensuring a smooth transfer. He had all the plugin’s accounts and services separated from his other entities, making it easily transferable. While at WCUS, they conducted a few Zoom sessions to explore the plugin’s codebase in-depth.\n\n\n\n“Despite the focus on marketing, I do have a few ideas for the plugin roadmap,” Klute said. “I’m looking at the possibility of a digital business card functionality similar to Blinq and also exploring ways to enhance the plugin\u2019s compatibility with WooCommerce for my dynamic shop functionality for e-commerce businesses.”", "date_published": "2023-09-25T13:44:34-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-25T13:44:36-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/social-link-pages-plugin.jpeg", "tags": [ "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149369", "url": "https://wptavern.com/block-visibility-3-1-0-adds-woocommerce-and-easy-digital-downloads-controls", "title": "Block Visibility 3.1.0 Adds WooCommerce and Easy Digital Downloads Controls", "content_html": "\n

When WordPress contributor and developer Nick Diego\u00a0released version 3.0 of his Block Visibility plugin earlier this year in March, he made all the Pro features available in the free version, with the exception of a few that would take more time. The plugin, which is used on more than 10,000 WordPress sites, allows users to conditionally display blocks based on specific user roles, logged in/out, specific users, screen sizes, query strings, ACF fields, and more.

\n\n\n\n

In the latest 3.1.0 update Block Visibility has added the missing WooCommerce and Easy Digital Downloads (EDD) controls. These features were originally planned to be merged into the free version in April but required more development to improve how they work on sites with large product/download catalogs.

\n\n\n\n

The WooCommerce controls include 18 conditional visibility rules with full support for products with variable pricing. It allows users to show or hide blocks based on products, cart contents, customer purchase history, and more.

\n\n\n\n

“There is one notable change to the product-based rules,” Diego said. “Previously, you had to select which product you wanted to target with the visibility conditions. While this is still possible, Block Visibility can now detect the current product.

\n\n\n\n

“This functionality is extremely useful on product pages, single product templates, and product grids (Query blocks).”

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

The EDD controls allow users to show or hide blocks based on downloads, cart contents, customer purchase history, and more. Since EDD doesn’t have as many block-powered layouts as WooCommerce, Diego did not include the “Detect current product” feature.

\n\n\n\n

“The EDD visibility control currently has no product-based rules,” he said. “If greater block support is added to EDD in the future, such as an EDD Products block that supports inner blocks, expect more functionality.”

\n\n\n\n

Block Visibility 3.1.0 also adds a new Command Palette command to “Manage Visibility Presets,” which requires WordPress 6.3+.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
image credit: Block Visibility repository – PR #84
\n\n\n\n

Diego said he doesn’t plan on adding any new integrations to the plugin but will continue improving existing controls. Now that all the features from the Pro version have been merged into the free plugin, users who have the Pro version installed can deactivate it after upgrading to version 3.1.0.

\n", "content_text": "When WordPress contributor and developer Nick Diego\u00a0released version 3.0 of his Block Visibility plugin earlier this year in March, he made all the Pro features available in the free version, with the exception of a few that would take more time. The plugin, which is used on more than 10,000 WordPress sites, allows users to conditionally display blocks based on specific user roles, logged in/out, specific users, screen sizes, query strings, ACF fields, and more. \n\n\n\nIn the latest 3.1.0 update Block Visibility has added the missing WooCommerce and Easy Digital Downloads (EDD) controls. These features were originally planned to be merged into the free version in April but required more development to improve how they work on sites with large product/download catalogs.\n\n\n\nThe WooCommerce controls include 18 conditional visibility rules with full support for products with variable pricing. It allows users to show or hide blocks based on products, cart contents, customer purchase history, and more.\n\n\n\n“There is one notable change to the product-based rules,” Diego said. “Previously, you had to select which product you wanted to target with the visibility conditions. While this is still possible, Block Visibility can now detect the current product.\n\n\n\n“This functionality is extremely useful on product pages, single product templates, and product grids (Query blocks).”\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe EDD controls allow users to show or hide blocks based on downloads, cart contents, customer purchase history, and more. Since EDD doesn’t have as many block-powered layouts as WooCommerce, Diego did not include the “Detect current product” feature.\n\n\n\n“The EDD visibility control currently has no product-based rules,” he said. “If greater block support is added to EDD in the future, such as an EDD Products block that supports inner blocks, expect more functionality.”\n\n\n\nBlock Visibility 3.1.0 also adds a new Command Palette command to “Manage Visibility Presets,” which requires WordPress 6.3+.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nimage credit: Block Visibility repository – PR #84\n\n\n\nDiego said he doesn’t plan on adding any new integrations to the plugin but will continue improving existing controls. Now that all the features from the Pro version have been merged into the free plugin, users who have the Pro version installed can deactivate it after upgrading to version 3.1.0.", "date_published": "2023-09-22T22:07:22-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-22T22:07:24-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screen-Shot-2023-09-22-at-10.01.39-PM.png", "tags": [ "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149346", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-plugin-review-team-onboards-new-members-releases-plugin-to-flag-common-errors", "title": "WordPress Plugin Review Team Onboards New Members, Releases Plugin to Flag Common Errors", "content_html": "\n

WordPress’ Plugin Review Team continues to dig out from under a massive backlog that has grown to 1,260 plugins awaiting review. Developers submitting new plugins can expect to wait at least 91 days, according to the notice on the queue today.

\n\n\n\n

“Currently there are 1,241 plugins awaiting review,” Automattic-sponsored Plugin Review team member Alvaro G\u00f3mez said earlier this week.

\n\n\n\n

“We are painstakingly aware of this. We check that number every day and realize how this delay is affecting\u00a0plugin\u00a0authors.”

\n\n\n\n

Although the backlog seems to be getting worse, G\u00f3mez published an update outlining new systems the team is putting in place to get the situation under control. He likened it to patching a hole in a boat, as opposed to simply prioritizing bailing out the water.

\n\n\n\n

“During the last six months, the Plugin review team has worked on documenting its processes, training new members, and improving its tools,” he said. “Now, thanks to your patience and support, the tide is about to turn.”

\n\n\n\n

The team has now onboarded two rounds of new members, with three more reviewers added recently, and has a system in place to make this easier in the future. After receiving more than 40 applications to join the team, the form will be closing at the end of September.

\n\n\n\n

They also sent plugin authors still waiting in the queue an email asking them to self-check their plugins to meet basic security standards, as another effort to mitigate the growing backlog.

\n\n\n\n

“We find ourselves correcting the same three or four errors on +95% of plugins and this is not a good use of our time,” G\u00f3mez said. “Once authors confirm that their plugins meet these basic requirements, we will proceed with the review.”

\n\n\n\n

A new plugin called Plugin Check has just been published to WordPress.org for plugin authors to self-review for common errors, which will eventually be integrated into the plugin submission process.

\n\n\n\n

“Once the PCP is merged with\u00a0this other plugin that the Performance team has been working on, it will provide\u00a0checks for a lot of other things,” G\u00f3mez said. “When this is completed, we will be in a better spot to take in feedback and make improvements.

\n\n\n\n

“In the short term, we are going to ask authors to test their plugins using the PCP before submitting them, but our goal is to integrate the plugin as\u00a0part of the submission process\u00a0and run automated checks.”

\n\n\n\n

So far plugin authors have reported a few bugs and issues with the plugin not recognizing files or giving unintelligible errors. These issues can be reported on the GitHub repo, which is temporarily hosted on the 10up GitHub account but will be moving to WordPress.org in the near future.

\n", "content_text": "WordPress’ Plugin Review Team continues to dig out from under a massive backlog that has grown to 1,260 plugins awaiting review. Developers submitting new plugins can expect to wait at least 91 days, according to the notice on the queue today. \n\n\n\n“Currently there are 1,241 plugins awaiting review,” Automattic-sponsored Plugin Review team member Alvaro G\u00f3mez said earlier this week.\n\n\n\n“We are painstakingly aware of this. We check that number every day and realize how this delay is affecting\u00a0plugin\u00a0authors.” \n\n\n\nAlthough the backlog seems to be getting worse, G\u00f3mez published an update outlining new systems the team is putting in place to get the situation under control. He likened it to patching a hole in a boat, as opposed to simply prioritizing bailing out the water.\n\n\n\n“During the last six months, the Plugin review team has worked on documenting its processes, training new members, and improving its tools,” he said. “Now, thanks to your patience and support, the tide is about to turn.”\n\n\n\nThe team has now onboarded two rounds of new members, with three more reviewers added recently, and has a system in place to make this easier in the future. After receiving more than 40 applications to join the team, the form will be closing at the end of September.\n\n\n\nThey also sent plugin authors still waiting in the queue an email asking them to self-check their plugins to meet basic security standards, as another effort to mitigate the growing backlog.\n\n\n\n“We find ourselves correcting the same three or four errors on +95% of plugins and this is not a good use of our time,” G\u00f3mez said. “Once authors confirm that their plugins meet these basic requirements, we will proceed with the review.”\n\n\n\nA new plugin called Plugin Check has just been published to WordPress.org for plugin authors to self-review for common errors, which will eventually be integrated into the plugin submission process.\n\n\n\n“Once the PCP is merged with\u00a0this other plugin that the Performance team has been working on, it will provide\u00a0checks for a lot of other things,” G\u00f3mez said. “When this is completed, we will be in a better spot to take in feedback and make improvements.\n\n\n\n“In the short term, we are going to ask authors to test their plugins using the PCP before submitting them, but our goal is to integrate the plugin as\u00a0part of the submission process\u00a0and run automated checks.”\n\n\n\nSo far plugin authors have reported a few bugs and issues with the plugin not recognizing files or giving unintelligible errors. These issues can be reported on the GitHub repo, which is temporarily hosted on the 10up GitHub account but will be moving to WordPress.org in the near future.", "date_published": "2023-09-22T13:51:11-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-22T13:51:13-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/cHJpdmF0ZS9sci9pbWFnZXMvd2Vic2l0ZS8yMDIyLTA1L3N2MTk5NDM5LWltYWdlLWt3dnVnNzFmLmpwZw.jpg", "tags": [ "plugin review", "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149315", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-accessibility-day-2023-announces-diverse-speaker-lineup-doubles-sponsors-from-previous-year", "title": "WordPress Accessibility Day 2023 Announces Diverse Speaker Lineup, Doubles Sponsors from Previous Year", "content_html": "\n

WP Accessibility Day (WPAD), an independent 24-hour virtual conference, has published its schedule for the upcoming event on September 27, 2023. Co-lead organizer Amber Hinds reports that more than 1,248 people have registered for the event so far with attendees across 30 different countries. Approximately 50% of attendees are from the U.S.

\n\n\n\n

WPAD has attracted an influx of new voices this year. All speakers, excluding sponsored sessions, are first-time speakers at the event.

\n\n\n\n

“We were nervous initially about speaker applicants, but we actually received a lot more speaker applications than last year and also more applications that were higher quality than in previous years,” Hinds said. “It was hard to decide!”

\n\n\n\n

The keynote address will feature a conversation between Jennison Asuncion, co-founder of Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD), and Joe Dolson, an accessibility consultant and co-founder of WordPress Accessibility Day. Attendees will learn how to perform usability and accessibility tests on their websites, how to build an accessible WordPress pages and posts using the block editor, simple ways to make email more accessible, how to understand color and contrast requirements in WCAG 2, and more.

\n\n\n\n

Based on the stats for speakers (of people who opted to give the info), WPAD’s organizers have succeeded at recruiting a diverse lineup for the event:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

“These were the hardest decisions we’ve had to make yet in selecting the WordPress Accessibility Day speakers,” Speaker Team lead Joe Dolson said. “There were so many truly excellent ideas proposed. As a result, our speakers include people who work across many different aspects of the web – inside and outside the WordPress community. I feel like we’ve ended up with an excellent cross section of topics, so we have something to offer for developers, policy makers, content creators, or community organizers.”

\n\n\n\n

WPAD secured non-profit status earlier this year through a fiscal sponsorship partnership with\u00a0Knowbility, an Austin-based digital accessibility advocate and services provider. One of the reasons the organizers wanted to manage it independently of the WordPress Foundation was to reserve the option to do things like pay speakers for their time and expertise. Speaker pay is one expenditure for the event, which is supported by corporate and community sponsors.

\n\n\n\n

Hinds said it was easier to attract sponsors this year and that the sponsors team received positive responses fairly quickly. They also added a microsponsorship option earlier this year (previously it was only on the registration form) and were able to recruit more businesses as microsponsors.

\n\n\n\n

The team’s goal this year was to get enough sponsorships to cover the cost of the event itself, make a donation to Knowbility (part of the event’s fiscal sponsorship agreement with them), and have enough leftover to cover year-round expenses, such as Google workspace, Buffer, domain registration, and hosting.

\n\n\n\n

Hinds said the organization met its sponsorship goals at most tiers, due to the hard work of the Sponsors team leads Bet Hannon and Joe Hall, along with the generosity of the community in supporting the event.

\n\n\n\n

“We are thrilled to have doubled the number of sponsors this year over last year,” Hannon said. “I think this reflects the increasing awareness about accessibility as an issue to be addressed, as well as the wider WordPress community coming together to sponsor an event providing high quality accessibility education.”

\n\n\n\n

New in 2023: WPAD to Broadcast via Zoom

\n\n\n\n

In addition to a whole new crop of speakers this year, WPAD is offering t-shirts for the first time as a thank you gift to attendees who want to make a donation when they register.

\n\n\n\n

“We had a lot of people ask us last year how they could get a t-shirt, but they were only available to organizers, speakers, and volunteers,” Hinds said. “This year they\u2019re available during registration so anyone can get one.”

\n\n\n\n

Last year the event was broadcast via an embedded YouTube video on the WPAD website with third-party embeds for chat/Q&A and the live transcript.

\n\n\n\n

“We got feedback from attendees that this did not work well because they didn\u2019t have control of the layout of the video,” Hinds said. “It was particularly limiting for attendees who rely on the sign language interpreters; they needed the interpreter video to be larger. Other people said that they found the interpretation to be distracting or they needed the slides to be bigger so they would be easier to read.”

\n\n\n\n

The 2023 event will be live streamed using Zoom, which recently introduced a sign language interpretation view that allows hosts to assign interpreters.

\n\n\n\n

“Attendees can choose to view the sign language interpretation in a separate window,” Hinds said. “With this new feature available, we decided to change to Zoom webinars. We have one long 24-hour webinar that people can jump in and out of as they see fit, and each attendee can set a view for speakers, slides, signers, and captions that works best for them.”

\n\n\n\n

Registration for the event is free and it’s still open. Attendees have the opportunity to receive virtual swag and win prizes from the sponsors. Organizers have also gotten the conference pre-approved for continuing education credits for the International Association of Accessibility Professionals\u00a0Web Accessibility Specialist (WAS)\u00a0and\u00a0Certified Professional in Core Competencies (CPACC)\u00a0certifications.

\n", "content_text": "WP Accessibility Day (WPAD), an independent 24-hour virtual conference, has published its schedule for the upcoming event on September 27, 2023. Co-lead organizer Amber Hinds reports that more than 1,248 people have registered for the event so far with attendees across 30 different countries. Approximately 50% of attendees are from the U.S. \n\n\n\nWPAD has attracted an influx of new voices this year. All speakers, excluding sponsored sessions, are first-time speakers at the event.\n\n\n\n“We were nervous initially about speaker applicants, but we actually received a lot more speaker applications than last year and also more applications that were higher quality than in previous years,” Hinds said. “It was hard to decide!”\n\n\n\nThe keynote address will feature a conversation between Jennison Asuncion, co-founder of Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD), and Joe Dolson, an accessibility consultant and co-founder of WordPress Accessibility Day. Attendees will learn how to perform usability and accessibility tests on their websites, how to build an accessible WordPress pages and posts using the block editor, simple ways to make email more accessible, how to understand color and contrast requirements in WCAG 2, and more. \n\n\n\nBased on the stats for speakers (of people who opted to give the info), WPAD’s organizers have succeeded at recruiting a diverse lineup for the event:\n\n\n\n\n10 countries\n\n\n\n67% female, 30% male, 3% Nonbinary\n\n\n\n14% LGBTQ\n\n\n\n41% non-white identifying\n\n\n\n2 first time speakers who have never spoken at any event.\n\n\n\n11 of the 27 speakers identify as having a disability. (41%) – There are speakers who identify as blind/low vision, deaf or hard of hearing, have limited mobility, and learning disabilities.\n\n\n\n\n“These were the hardest decisions we’ve had to make yet in selecting the WordPress Accessibility Day speakers,” Speaker Team lead Joe Dolson said. “There were so many truly excellent ideas proposed. As a result, our speakers include people who work across many different aspects of the web – inside and outside the WordPress community. I feel like we’ve ended up with an excellent cross section of topics, so we have something to offer for developers, policy makers, content creators, or community organizers.”\n\n\n\nWPAD secured non-profit status earlier this year through a fiscal sponsorship partnership with\u00a0Knowbility, an Austin-based digital accessibility advocate and services provider. One of the reasons the organizers wanted to manage it independently of the WordPress Foundation was to reserve the option to do things like pay speakers for their time and expertise. Speaker pay is one expenditure for the event, which is supported by corporate and community sponsors.\n\n\n\nHinds said it was easier to attract sponsors this year and that the sponsors team received positive responses fairly quickly. They also added a microsponsorship option earlier this year (previously it was only on the registration form) and were able to recruit more businesses as microsponsors.\n\n\n\nThe team’s goal this year was to get enough sponsorships to cover the cost of the event itself, make a donation to Knowbility (part of the event’s fiscal sponsorship agreement with them), and have enough leftover to cover year-round expenses, such as Google workspace, Buffer, domain registration, and hosting.\n\n\n\nHinds said the organization met its sponsorship goals at most tiers, due to the hard work of the Sponsors team leads Bet Hannon and Joe Hall, along with the generosity of the community in supporting the event.\n\n\n\n“We are thrilled to have doubled the number of sponsors this year over last year,” Hannon said. “I think this reflects the increasing awareness about accessibility as an issue to be addressed, as well as the wider WordPress community coming together to sponsor an event providing high quality accessibility education.”\n\n\n\nNew in 2023: WPAD to Broadcast via Zoom\n\n\n\nIn addition to a whole new crop of speakers this year, WPAD is offering t-shirts for the first time as a thank you gift to attendees who want to make a donation when they register. \n\n\n\n“We had a lot of people ask us last year how they could get a t-shirt, but they were only available to organizers, speakers, and volunteers,” Hinds said. “This year they\u2019re available during registration so anyone can get one.”\n\n\n\nLast year the event was broadcast via an embedded YouTube video on the WPAD website with third-party embeds for chat/Q&A and the live transcript. \n\n\n\n“We got feedback from attendees that this did not work well because they didn\u2019t have control of the layout of the video,” Hinds said. “It was particularly limiting for attendees who rely on the sign language interpreters; they needed the interpreter video to be larger. Other people said that they found the interpretation to be distracting or they needed the slides to be bigger so they would be easier to read.”\n\n\n\nThe 2023 event will be live streamed using Zoom, which recently introduced a sign language interpretation view that allows hosts to assign interpreters. \n\n\n\n“Attendees can choose to view the sign language interpretation in a separate window,” Hinds said. “With this new feature available, we decided to change to Zoom webinars. We have one long 24-hour webinar that people can jump in and out of as they see fit, and each attendee can set a view for speakers, slides, signers, and captions that works best for them.”\n\n\n\nRegistration for the event is free and it’s still open. Attendees have the opportunity to receive virtual swag and win prizes from the sponsors. Organizers have also gotten the conference pre-approved for continuing education credits for the International Association of Accessibility Professionals\u00a0Web Accessibility Specialist (WAS)\u00a0and\u00a0Certified Professional in Core Competencies (CPACC)\u00a0certifications.", "date_published": "2023-09-21T23:49:28-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-21T23:49:30-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screen-Shot-2023-09-21-at-11.40.38-PM.png", "tags": [ "accessiblity", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149225", "url": "https://wptavern.com/community-team-invites-organizers-to-apply-for-hosting-next-generation-wordpress-events", "title": "Community Team Invites Organizers to Apply for Hosting Next Generation WordPress Events", "content_html": "\n
\"\"
Attendees of NextGen WordCamp Bengaluru – image credit: WordPress.org
\n\n\n\n

WordPress’ Community team is evolving the WordCamp format to promote adoption, training, and networking for professionals, leaving the flagship events to focus more on connection and inspiration.\u00a0This change opens the door for more creative concepts around the events’ new mission:

\n\n\n\n
\n

WordPress events spark innovation and adoption by way of accessible training and networking for users, builders, designers, and extenders. We celebrate community by accelerating 21st-century skills, professional opportunities, and partnerships for WordPressers of today and tomorrow.

\n
\n\n\n\n

A group of eight pilot events were confirmed in June, and two recent “NextGen” WordPress events have already happened, including a community-building workshop in Japan, and WordCamp Bengaluru, a one-day event featuring the local culture and a walking tour of the city.

\n\n\n\n

The Community team has compiled a list of more than three dozen concepts to inspire NextGen event organizers. The list spans a wide range of ideas, such as college campus based groups, sponsor networking days, show and tell night, job fairs, events for agencies, WordPress retreats, and many more.

\n\n\n\n

Anyone who is interested to host one of these new event types is invited to fill out a form that the Community team has created to capture ideas for future events – either before the end of 2023, or during the first half of 2024. Organizers will be asked to identify a category for their proposed event from among the following:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Although the form is presented as a survey, it’s more of an interest form, which is why it collects the respondent’s contact information. Respondents who indicate they are willing to have a discussion about their ideas may be contacted by the Community team.

\n", "content_text": "Attendees of NextGen WordCamp Bengaluru – image credit: WordPress.org\n\n\n\nWordPress’ Community team is evolving the WordCamp format to promote adoption, training, and networking for professionals, leaving the flagship events to focus more on connection and inspiration.\u00a0This change opens the door for more creative concepts around the events’ new mission:\n\n\n\n\nWordPress events spark innovation and adoption by way of accessible training and networking for users, builders, designers, and extenders. We celebrate community by accelerating 21st-century skills, professional opportunities, and partnerships for WordPressers of today and tomorrow.\n\n\n\n\nA group of eight pilot events were confirmed in June, and two recent “NextGen” WordPress events have already happened, including a community-building workshop in Japan, and WordCamp Bengaluru, a one-day event featuring the local culture and a walking tour of the city.\n\n\n\nThe Community team has compiled a list of more than three dozen concepts to inspire NextGen event organizers. The list spans a wide range of ideas, such as college campus based groups, sponsor networking days, show and tell night, job fairs, events for agencies, WordPress retreats, and many more. \n\n\n\nAnyone who is interested to host one of these new event types is invited to fill out a form that the Community team has created to capture ideas for future events – either before the end of 2023, or during the first half of 2024. Organizers will be asked to identify a category for their proposed event from among the following:\n\n\n\n\nWP expertise level (beginners, intermediate, advanced)\n\n\n\nFocused activity (training, recruiting, networking, contributing, conferencing, etc)\n\n\n\nJob status (students, fresh graduates, job seekers, freelancers, business owners, etc)\n\n\n\nIdentity-based (women, castes, BIPOC, Latinx, LGBTQI+, tribes, age, etc)\n\n\n\nContent topic focused (designers, block development, SEO, etc)\n\n\n\n\nAlthough the form is presented as a survey, it’s more of an interest form, which is why it collects the respondent’s contact information. Respondents who indicate they are willing to have a discussion about their ideas may be contacted by the Community team.", "date_published": "2023-09-21T21:26:05-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-21T21:26:07-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/wordcamp-bengalaru.png", "tags": [ "Events", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=149118", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-com-plugin-pages-add-download-link-for-using-plugins-on-self-hosted-sites", "title": "WordPress.com Plugin Pages Add Download Link for Using Plugins on Self-Hosted Sites", "content_html": "\n

WordPress.com plugin pages have been updated to include a download link for WordPress.org plugins listed in the .com directory. These are the listings that are scraped from WordPress.org. The plugins are available for free on WordPress.org for self-hosted sites but can only be used on WordPress.com with a paid subscription.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
Logged out view of WordPress.com plugin pages
\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n

The text in the sidebar includes a link to an article explaining the difference between WordPress.org and WordPress.com. It appears on both the logged-out and logged-in views:

\n\n\n\n
\n

This plugin is available for download to be used on your\u00a0WordPress self-hosted\u00a0installation.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Themes hosted on WordPress.com have a similar notice with a link to download the theme and use it on a self-hosted site.

\n\n\n\n

This change comes as the result of developers raising concerns about WordPress.com plugin listings outranking WordPress.org on Google Search in some instances. During that discussion, many developers were surprised to learn that their plugins created for WordPress.org were also listed on WordPress.com as only available with a paid subscription. Patchstack responded by updating its readme file\u00a0to ensure that WordPress.com users and visitors are made aware that the plugin is available for free in the official WordPress plugin repository. This response may not be necessary now, unless developers want to include a direct link to their plugins.

\n\n\n\n

In a discussion on Post Status Slack, some plugin developers said they would prefer a link to the actual plugin page where they can see and participate in reviews. The omission of a link back to WordPress.org may be intentional, as it would take users off of the .com site, which does not facilitate customers upgrading to paid plans in order to use plugins.

\n\n\n\n

Some developers had also asked Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg to noindex those pages, but he said that WordPress.com users should also be able to search Google for the listings.

\n\n\n\n
\n

I think it should show up for .com users who are Googling, and Google appears smart enough prioritize correctly. That\u2019s a SEO benefit, and not at the expense of any plugin authors.

— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 19, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Some developers have asked to know what percentage of their active installs come from WordPress.com vs. WordPress.org, or other hosting platforms. Mullenweg said there are currently no reports for this but that the data could be interesting.

\n\n\n\n
\n

There are no reports currently for plugin installs by web host. I could see that being interesting, though, especially with how some hosts bundle.

— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 18, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

“If people are providing more distribution to unaltered plugins, I think that’s great,” Mullenweg said during the discussion last week. “Happy for all our plugins to be duplicated and distributed by every host and site on the planet.”

\n\n\n\n

When asked if WordPress.org could extract the data for known plugin distributors, like WordPress.com, Mullenweg said, “.com or any other host could share plugin info if it\u2019s allowed by their privacy policy. Also it\u2019s fairly trivial to get plugin info from crawling sites.”

\n", "content_text": "WordPress.com plugin pages have been updated to include a download link for WordPress.org plugins listed in the .com directory. These are the listings that are scraped from WordPress.org. The plugins are available for free on WordPress.org for self-hosted sites but can only be used on WordPress.com with a paid subscription.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLogged out view of WordPress.com plugin pages\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe text in the sidebar includes a link to an article explaining the difference between WordPress.org and WordPress.com. It appears on both the logged-out and logged-in views:\n\n\n\n\nThis plugin is available for download to be used on your\u00a0WordPress self-hosted\u00a0installation.\n\n\n\n\nThemes hosted on WordPress.com have a similar notice with a link to download the theme and use it on a self-hosted site.\n\n\n\nThis change comes as the result of developers raising concerns about WordPress.com plugin listings outranking WordPress.org on Google Search in some instances. During that discussion, many developers were surprised to learn that their plugins created for WordPress.org were also listed on WordPress.com as only available with a paid subscription. Patchstack responded by updating its readme file\u00a0to ensure that WordPress.com users and visitors are made aware that the plugin is available for free in the official WordPress plugin repository. This response may not be necessary now, unless developers want to include a direct link to their plugins.\n\n\n\nIn a discussion on Post Status Slack, some plugin developers said they would prefer a link to the actual plugin page where they can see and participate in reviews. The omission of a link back to WordPress.org may be intentional, as it would take users off of the .com site, which does not facilitate customers upgrading to paid plans in order to use plugins.\n\n\n\nSome developers had also asked Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg to noindex those pages, but he said that WordPress.com users should also be able to search Google for the listings.\n\n\n\n\nI think it should show up for .com users who are Googling, and Google appears smart enough prioritize correctly. That\u2019s a SEO benefit, and not at the expense of any plugin authors.— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 19, 2023\n\n\n\n\nSome developers have asked to know what percentage of their active installs come from WordPress.com vs. WordPress.org, or other hosting platforms. Mullenweg said there are currently no reports for this but that the data could be interesting. \n\n\n\n\nThere are no reports currently for plugin installs by web host. I could see that being interesting, though, especially with how some hosts bundle.— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 18, 2023\n\n\n\n\n“If people are providing more distribution to unaltered plugins, I think that’s great,” Mullenweg said during the discussion last week. “Happy for all our plugins to be duplicated and distributed by every host and site on the planet.”\n\n\n\nWhen asked if WordPress.org could extract the data for known plugin distributors, like WordPress.com, Mullenweg said, “.com or any other host could share plugin info if it\u2019s allowed by their privacy policy. Also it\u2019s fairly trivial to get plugin info from crawling sites.”", "date_published": "2023-09-20T16:27:33-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-20T16:28:36-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screen-Shot-2023-09-20-at-2.41.03-PM.png", "tags": [ "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=148915", "url": "https://wptavern.com/podcast/91-vagelis-papaioannou-on-how-to-learn-to-use-wordpress-and-help-with-events", "title": "#91 \u2013 Vagelis Papaioannou on How to Learn to Use WordPress and Help With Events", "content_html": "\n
Transcript
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[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast. From WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

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Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how to learn to use WordPress and help with events.

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If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

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If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox.

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So on the podcast today, we have a Vagelis Papaioannou. Vagelis is a software engineer from Greece. His journey with coding began during his elementary school years. In an experimental coding class. This sparked a lifelong passion within him.

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His love for WordPress dates back to the early versions. For the last eight to nine years, he has actively participated in the Greek WordPress community, engaging in various roles, such as organizing WordCamps and meetups. Vagelis also contributes to multiple teams, cherishing the small contributions that allow everyone to make a difference. He also serves as the project translation lead for the Greek language.

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Vagelis, although a self-confessed introvert, shares his initial struggles with being a part of the community and attending local meetups. He encourages people to step outside their comfort zones, and attend events like WordCamps and meetups, where they’re likely to discover a welcoming and friendly atmosphere. Vagelis recounts his own experience of attending such events, initially feeling scared, but eventually having an enjoyable time, making many lasting friendships along the way.

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He talks about how local meetups are more casual gatherings than WordCamps. People come together to talk about WordPress, learn, and spend time with like-minded individuals. From meetups by the sea to forest walks, these events offer opportunities for both education and social engagement.

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On the subject of WordCamps, Vagelis unravels the magic behind these larger multi-day events, with presentations and a contributor day. He emphasizes that contribution to the community doesn’t necessarily require coding skills, and encourages more people to get involved. WordCamps are not only platforms for learning and exchanging ideas, but they also provide a space for attendees to have fun, network, and explore all manner of other opportunities.

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We talk about the importance of the code of conduct at WordCamps. This code ensures that participants know that they’re going to have a safe and inclusive experience. With attendees joining from all corners of the globe, these events attract a diverse range of individuals who are passionate about the software and the community.

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We then talk about the effort required to organize these events. Vagelis explains why he’s willing to dedicate his time and energy to be a part of such complex projects. He talks about the benefits participants gain from taking an active role, whether as an organizer, speaker or volunteer.

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As Vagelis shares his personal experiences in organizing and participating in events like WordCamp, Athens, he strongly advocates for more community involvement, and highlights the need for new organizers to get involved, to allow the community to meet up once again.

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We then get into a discussion of other ways that you can be involved. This time in the Learn project, which is making freely available materials so that people can learn about WordPress at a time that suits them. Vagelis talks about what the Learn team does, and how you can join them. He discusses how the team works using GitHub for collaboration and accommodating individuals with various skills and abilities.

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From the educational content available on the learn.wordpress.org website., To the valuable connections made through hallway chats, Vagelis emphasizes the power and importance of the WordPress community.

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If you’re a seasoned WordPress enthusiast, or just starting your journey in contributions, this episode is for you.

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If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast. Where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

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And so without further delay, I bring you Vagelis Papaioannou.

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I am joined on the podcast today by Vagelis Papaioannou. Hello Vagelis!

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[00:05:27] Vagelis Papaioannou: Hello Nathan. Hello.

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[00:05:28] Nathan Wrigley: Very nice to have you on the podcast today. Just to give you a little bit of orientation, right at the outset we’re going to be talking about WordPress events. We might well dip our toes into WordCamp Europe. We might talk about local meetups and WordCamps in general. And then we might also pivot to talk about something which Vagelis is interested in, the training team.

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But before that, just to paint a picture of who you are and what your experience is with WordPress. I wonder Vagelis if you wouldn’t mind just giving us your bio. You can start as early as you like. Anything you want to say about you and WordPress.

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[00:06:04] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah of course. My name is Vagelis, I’m from Greece. I was raised and born in Athens and I live in Thessaloniki for the last 21 years. I’m a software engineer and my journey with coding started at elementary school where we had this experimental class of coding and I got really into it. And then that just made my passion.

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So regarding WordPress, I’ve been using WordPress since the version one point something, I can’t really remember. I was using b2 and then I jumped over to WordPress. The last eight, nine years I’ve been part of the Greek community of WordPress. I’m trying to go to build as much as possible I can.

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And I’m a WordCamp organiser. I’m a meetup organiser. I do contribute across multiple teams like training, testing or photos and all that small bits that everyone can do. I’m also the P.T. for the Greek language translation. Yeah that’s pretty much it I guess.

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[00:07:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah that’s a lot. That really is a lot. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on. We didn’t discuss this in our pre recording chat, but I’m just wondering if you could paint the picture for us of what the state of the WordPress community in Greece is like. Just judging by my accent you can probably tell that I’m from the UK, and we might have a very different complexion here.

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We’ve obviously just this year had a huge WordPress event in Greece. WordCamp Europe was held in Athens earlier this year. If I’m looking at it from the outside I get the impression that the Greek community is thriving because they put on events like WordCamp Europe, but I don’t know if that’s the case.

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How is it being a Greek WordPress user? Are there plenty of events? Is the community thriving or is it in a different state?

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[00:07:59] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well the community is pretty big. We have a huge Facebook group with almost 20,000 people. We do two major events, two WordCamps, one in Athens and one in Thessaloniki. Sadly COVID 19 hit us really hard, so we had to stop for a while. We also stopped the meetups but we’re getting back to it. We’ve done like 10, 11 meetups the last year in Thessaloniki, and I know there are plans to do more meetups in other areas of Greece.

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We also in planning of a special WordCamp. We try to figure out where to do that and how to plan it so we can apply for it on WordCamp Central. And yeah we have a lot of users, lots of people trying to translate, we have a lot of coders.

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We also have a lot of people actually working in key companies regarding to WordPress, like Automattic and stuff like that. So yeah, we’re doing good I guess. But because I’m that kind of person, I know we could do better in some fields, but that’s a whole different story.

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[00:09:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I guess there’s always room for improvement. I can completely sympathise though with the whole COVID thing. I think it’s fair to say that it put the brakes on in the UK and I don’t think the community has quite got back to where it was. Things are beginning again. There are various different WordCamps and meetups and things like that which are coming back from being online.

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Broadly speaking I think a lot of them carried on in an online way, but I’m not sure that the interest was maintained. And so a lot of them are now coming back and hoping to be in the real world once more. But the flagship event, one of the bigger events that we had in the UK was WordCamp London and, as yet, it has not re emerged. So fingers crossed.

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[00:09:52] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah. I’ve been on the last WordCamp London and I had a blast. It was a great event. We had great fun and I really hope that it’s coming back.

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[00:10:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah fingers crossed for that as well. We’re going to talk a little bit about local meetups and what have you, and WordCamp Europe in particular. Let’s begin there. Let’s begin with WordCamp Europe and paint a picture.

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Prior to that though I wouldn’t mind having a conversation around the fact that it’s very obvious to somebody like you and somebody like me, who probably obsess more than is healthy for us about WordPress, but we know that there’s a community. We’re well aware that these events take place. There was a time though when I was a user of WordPress, I was using nothing else, it was probably about two years into my journey with WordPress that I actually noticed that there was a community at all.

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Prior to that I was simply going to the .org websites, downloading the software, using that software, and then you know rinse and repeat, building websites and so on. And then I can’t remember where, it was possibly on social media or something, I remember seeing a picture. The collection of people with WordPress T-shirts on standing in a hallway or something. And I was thinking well that’s curious, what are they doing?

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And then obviously as time went on, it occurred to me oh there are these events. So given that the listenership to this podcast could be anybody, do you want to just talk a little bit about what WordPress events are? What they endeavor to do? How they are organised? Whether that be big events, little events, meetups and so on.

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[00:11:21] Vagelis Papaioannou: Definitely. Well first of all I need to reassure everyone that’s listening to this that I’m an introvert. So it wasn’t easy for me to be a part of a community, any community. Or just go in a random place in a local meetup, open the door and just stay there with a bunch of random folks.

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So if you feel like that, just come to any event even if it’s a WordCamp, a meetup, gathering, whatever. Just come, say hi and we’re all really welcoming and friendly. And you’re going to find someone who can really make you feel comfortable.

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I was aware of the community for a long time before I even managed to go on a local meetup here in Thessaloniki. And I remember me being there, just sitting on a chair, and I didn’t feel like talking to anyone. I was kind of scared. Scared grown up man, just in a strange place with other folks talking about software, which I love.

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So the next time was better and I actually had fun. I made a few contacts which I can now call friends. And that’s pretty much what a local meetup is. It’s just a gathering. We just get a soda, we talk about WordPress. We may have a presentation, we may have snacks. It’s a cool two hours spending with friends around WordPress. That’s pretty much it.

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I remember our last meetup, it was a month ago and we did it on Thessaloniki seaside. So we had like this beautiful sea view and we were just 20 people talking about random stuff. And then the idea struck, and someone said, shall we do another one? But like in Naousa, which is a different place, a different town. There’s a forest there. We can walk through the forest and go eat and do some stuff. And we agreed to do that. So that’s our next meetup. It’s on September the 2nd. So it’s pretty informal.

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And the same goes for WorldCamps, but WorldCamp is a bigger event. It’s usually like a couple of days event. There’s the presentation day and then there’s a contributor day where we gather and contribute.

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Just a side note, you don’t have to code to be a contributor. You can contribute in so many ways and we do need more contributors to help in so many teams.

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So yeah WordCamps, like I said, WordCamps are informal. You can come to learn something but if you feel that you can’t learn anything you can just come and have fun with us. Have a nice lunch, meet new people, exchange ideas. And maybe at the end of the day you learn something new. I don’t want to digress so that’s pretty much it.

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[00:14:11] Nathan Wrigley: No I think that’s great. That was a really nice summary. And I think a really important point that you made there, especially for people who’ve never been to these events before, is the no code piece. That is to say, you really genuinely don’t need to know a line of code, you don’t need to know any of that whatsoever to enjoy the event.

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Because usually, especially at the larger events, there’s a whole broad range of things that are being presented, workshops that are being given. Yeah, some of it will be about the code but a lot of it will be about other aspects of life on the internet. So it may be SEO, or marketing, or design, or something like that. So there’s definitely something for everybody.

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And also, I’ll throw into the mix, the somewhat undermentioned but very important hallway track. And this is simply when you’re not at a presentation. This is just hanging out, being in the corridor, chatting to people. And my understanding from chatting to people over the years is that quite a lot of serendipitous things happen during those hallway chats. You know friendships are created, businesses are formed, partnerships are made during those kinds of hallway random meetups. And it’s those things in particular are really nice.

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[00:15:24] Vagelis Papaioannou: And you also get the vibe of the market. So if you’re into that market, you get the vibe of where are we heading to? And that’s a good thing to always stay up to date.

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[00:15:36] Nathan Wrigley: I think also it might be worth mentioning that there is an enforced code of conduct. So there really are kind of rules and guidelines around what is acceptable. So if you have any fears or worries around that, what your participation would look like? How you would feel? How comfortable you would be or what have you, there are definite guidelines to make sure that your experience is as friendly as possible. Let’s put it that way.

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So WordCamps are the big ones. Then we’ve got these more ad hoc local meetups where really you’re probably just capturing people from the local area. Maybe a few miles around, as opposed to people getting on aeroplanes. They typically happen more like once a month or something like that.

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Why have you been so keen to contribute to these things though? Because my understanding is, especially an event like WordCamp Europe, you only have to attend to realise how breathtakingly large that undertaking is. The enterprise of putting on an event for several thousand people, coming from all over the globe.

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The fact that it’s, the catering is done, the internet is provided, there’s AV, there’s translations, there’s people standing around with the correct T-shirt on, helpfully guiding people all over. What I’m trying to paint a picture of is just how breathtakingly large these things are, and complex are. So I’m just wondering, why do you give up your time in this way? What do you gain from it?

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[00:16:57] Vagelis Papaioannou: It is indeed a massive event especially the Europe, US and Asia. I mean it’s about giving back I guess, to the community because we all get something out of it. I’m that kind of person that I believe we should always try to give back, even if we don’t get enough. We should give more than we get. This is how I work.

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However, about WordCamp Europe, yes it was a massive thing. It required so many hours of work. Oh and I forgot to say that most of the times it is fun to get involved in these kind of stuff. And WordCamp Europe was fun for most of the time.

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At the end of the day it is a massive event. It’s our country and we’re a bunch of people that we had to help to organise a good event, if you know what I mean. It’s always about giving back. I don’t have something specific in my mind. I never go out to try to find contacts. I never try to go out and do business or whatever. I just want to give back.

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[00:18:01] Nathan Wrigley: Certain sense of pleasure from being there, helping, making sure that it all runs smoothly. I can totally empathise with that.

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Okay so again, thinking about the listeners who have never been to such an event as that. I described the kind of things that might be on offer. You talked about the fact that volunteers, community members, helping out at these events are a crucial part of that puzzle.

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Are you able to just tell us some of the different roles? Now you might just cherry pick some that you know top of your mind. But just to give a flavor of the kind of things that you could be doing should you dip your toes into the water and offer your time at one of these events. What are the kind of things that you might find yourself involved with?

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[00:18:45] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well it’s easy to find something to do on these kinds of events. I mean if you can use Gutenberg you can join the website team. If you can design you can go with the design team. That’s pretty straightforward.

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But if you just want to volunteer and that means that you will be there at the three days of the event, and you will all be spending time for the event while being there. Which is a different thing than being an organiser, because we had to work like months, several months before the event. So if you just want to be a volunteer you can do so many things from registration, or from helping the sponsors, from making sure everything is okay. From sitting on a corner and waiting for someone to ask you something.

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There are so many roles, and I believe that volunteers are a huge part of any event, even if it’s WordCamp Europe or a local WordCamp. Without the volunteers we can do nothing. And also we need to make clear that the organisers are also volunteers. I had a chat with multiple people, and it looks like some folks believe that we’re getting paid or we get something like a benefit or I don’t know, whatever. But we don’t, we’re just volunteers just like the rest of the volunteers and we are all equal during this event.

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[00:20:08] Nathan Wrigley: As one of the lead organisers, given that you probably have months and months of work involved in it, well probably years is more the correct way of describing it. But given that you’ve probably got to make trips to the event, now you mentioned that you don’t get paid, but is there a system whereby, if you’re at that level and you’re organising things and you have to, I don’t know, let’s say for example you don’t live in Greece so you needed to make a journey to Athens. Are there any scenarios in which those things are paid for? Or are you always dipping into your own reserves for the WordCamp organising endeavor?

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[00:20:42] Vagelis Papaioannou: I guess you can just look for a sponsor for a company that would like to sponsor you to do that. But in my case I covered everything. I’m in Greece, I’m just 500 kilometers away from Athens, so that wasn’t a big thing. But for other people coming from other countries, and if you consider that this is during summertime, and summertime in Greece the prices are going high, because of the tourism and all that stuff. They have to book hotels just like did, so it’s a big expense to be fair. I mean, it’s a few thousand euros to be able to go to venue visits and then go to the event, and stay for a week.

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[00:21:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah that’s interesting. I certainly have met people who have been sponsored to attend these events. Yeah thank you for that.

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We should probably also talk about the affordable nature of these events, because typically if you were to go to a three day conference, well in WordCamp’s case it’s often two days, and then there’s something called a contributor day which we’ll get onto in a minute.

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The cost of these tickets is really low. If you were to attend an event of similar size and scope elsewhere, I feel that you might have a very high ticket price. But WordCamps don’t have this ticket price. Now I understand that some of the money is offset from the sponsors, but typically they’re very affordable to attend in the region of, I don’t know 40, 50, 60 euros, something along those lines.

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So I just wanted to raise that as a point. You don’t need to have deep pockets if you want to attend. And if you’ve got local WordCamps it’s very likely that the cost will be low as well. In fact, in many cases, I think it would be true to say that the cost of your ticket probably wouldn’t even cover the food.

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[00:22:27] Vagelis Papaioannou: You always get your money back. And I mean our local WordCamps cost 25 euros. And you get lunch, you get swag, which swag is really, really important. And when someone goes to WordCamp Europe for the first time and you travel abroad, just bring an extra bag with you. You’re going to need it. I’m always bringing an extra bag when I go to WordCamp abroad.

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So yeah you always get your money back. You get coffees, you get refreshments, lunch. WordCamp Europe was 50 euros. It’s really cheap because if you consider other events of that scale, the ticket could be like 600 euros easily. So yeah these are really cheap events.

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[00:23:09] Nathan Wrigley: I’ll also point out the fact that there are, there’s quite a few initiatives. Many of them actually I believe begun by a previous WordCamp Europe over many years. So for example, if you have children that you need to be taking with you, that is also something which at WordCamp Europe at least, I can’t speak about the other ones, there are facilities provided for that.

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And also great lengths have been gone to, to make sure that the events are accessible as possible. So by that I might mean that for example, if you need the use of a wheelchair or something like that, great lengths have gone to to make sure that you can access all of the different parts of the event.

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But also that things like live translations are done, and not by an AI robot sitting in the corner but by a bank of real human beings, and all of those things really, they’re amazing. I’m quite proud in a sense that the WordPress community sees those things as important enough to spend the money on, to spend the time on, to get right.

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[00:24:13] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah that’s really great. And this is again done by volunteers, so we should just sit back and realise how much work we need to do in order to get these done. This year in Europe we had childcare and we also had workshops for children, which was really great. Every event should be inclusive, and accessibility should be our first concern.

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However this is something that brings a lot of drama into the community for numerous reasons. But yeah we should all help everybody, everyone, every single one to come to WordCamp and have fun.

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[00:24:56] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah nice. So I think we’ve painted a picture there hopefully of an event which is not only affordable, if you can make it there. The cost of the ticket is affordable, but also inclusive. There’s a whole variety of different things, you don’t need to be into one particular thing aka code.

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If you want to attend, it’s very likely that you’ll meet some people, make some friendships. And in my case I think it’s fair to say that quite a lot of real, proper, genuine friendships have been built up from chatting to people who were stood next to me that I never knew just five minutes before.

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So they’re the big events. Now I can’t remember whether you mentioned whether you’re a part of a more local meetup, but I think if we could just get into that quickly.

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[00:25:42] Vagelis Papaioannou: I’m organising me and a few friends, I’m going to call them friends because after all these years I consider them to be my friends. We’re organising the Thessaloniki meetups, which is a monthly meetup. We try to do presentations. We also have a workshop going on about creating what we called the first community block theme, but we didn’t do it fast enough. Someone else did that, but that’s fine. And we also tried to do a few outdoors meetups. The next one is in a month or so in the city near Thessaloniki.

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Local meetups are great. We just have a beautiful small place, sponsored by a local business here in Thessaloniki. We gather once a month, we have some snacks, we have some refreshments, we exchange ideas, we have a laugh, we do the presentation and then everyone goes home. And then we just wait for the next one.

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It’s really hard to organise these kind of events. It really needs some time to get them done correctly, and it’s always done by our personal time, so it’s not that easy. But it’s fun, and people really like these kind of events.

\n\n\n\n

Oh, I forgot to mention, these events are free, so anyone can just come and join us. There’s no ticket or whatever. We do have a sponsor which helps a lot for snacks and refreshments, and we do have another sponsor for the venue, so we’re pretty much covered and yeah, it’s fun.

\n\n\n\n

[00:27:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah so much more frequent. The cadence is typically I think once a month, something like that. Much more local, so there’s no accommodation requirements. You just make your way there. Often in the evening when the work day is over. A couple of hours of presentation, like you said a few snacks and that’s the way it goes.

\n\n\n\n

So a real nice way to keep up to date with your local WordPressers. And I think these things, once they kickstart themselves after the pandemic, I think really just events like that really do underpin the whole community. Without them I don’t know where we’d be in all honesty.

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[00:27:55] Vagelis Papaioannou: It’s an important part of the community, the meetups, I believe.

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[00:27:59] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I think so too. Let’s move on. Let’s pivot because we’ve got something else to talk about. So this is something called the training team. Obviously it’s connected with WordPress but I wouldn’t really say that I know too much about this. During the process of this interview hopefully I will be learning a lot about it as well.

\n\n\n\n

Let’s just lay the bedrock. What is the training team? What’s its purpose? How long has it been around? Any place you want to begin there really.

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[00:28:23] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well the training team is brilliant. There’s so much content for anyone and everyone in there. And how I met the training team. A year ago I wanted some resources about our local meetup, and I was talking with someone from the marketing team, and they told me just go to the training team and get some content.

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What’s a training team? I’ve never heard of it. And then I joined the training team and I’ve seen that there are so much good content in there. There are courses, there are lesson plans, there is so much content for all different levels of WordPress users or developers. For the last year it grew so much.

\n\n\n\n

There are two main things in training team, tutorials and lesson plans. You can follow a tutorial and then something new, or you can get a lesson plan and use it on a local meetup, or on your class and teach the others something new. And in order to do that there are a bunch of volunteers working day and night creating content.

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But most importantly keeping the content up to date, because that’s the most important thing. Whenever a new version of WordPress comes out and there are changes, we have to go back, review the content and do the appropriate edits. And also because we’re trying to be inclusive, we want to translate that content, and this is where I fit in. I try to translate as much content as possible in Greek. And I also have on the website in order to do some patterns, to do that translation easier for the translators.

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And now we’re in the state where we’re trying to find more people to contribute in translations because if we manage to translate all that content then there is no excuse for someone to say, I don’t know how to do that because everything is in there. So you can really learn something new every day from the training team. Which, by the way, can be found, this is confusing, at learn.wordpress.org. So training team is a team, but the website is learn, and this is where you go to learn WordPress. That’s the idea.

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[00:30:41] Nathan Wrigley: Do you know if there was a reason if you like, why the team was given a lot more focus and attention more recently? What I’m wondering is, we spoke a little while ago about the effect of things like the pandemic, and effect that that had on the community. I don’t know if it’s coincidental or if it’s intentional that more effort seems to be being put recently into things like providing training materials.

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There seems to be a lot more of that being created, but I see a lot more of it being mentioned in different parts of the WordPress ecosystem. So I didn’t know if it was an endeavor just to bolster what we’ve already got, or if it was trying to react to, I don’t know, community dwindling, something like that.

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[00:31:21] Vagelis Papaioannou: It’s probably both. I also think that training team has more resources now. By saying resources I mean more people, and more people join every day, and the more people we get the more content we have. And it looks like it’s getting a lot of support from the community and also the team leads.

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The previous ones,, and the ones we currently have did a really great job. I’m not going to get into names because I’m going to forget someone and it’s not fair. But they’re all great, and they all did so much about the training team. And I think this is part of the success of the team. It’s going to get better, I’m pretty sure about it.

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[00:32:02] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah so obviously it’s putting out content, it’s keeping that content up to date. WordPress is going through, well certainly in the last several years has gone through some real transformational changes. And it does feel like we’re with the advent of WordPress 6.2 and 6.3 and probably 6.4, there’s going to be a lot of changes, made and so communicating those changes is going to be really important.

\n\n\n\n

You mentioned that the team leads have been great. You also mentioned that there seems to be a steady trickle of people heading in your direction, wanting to help out with the team. How does that team organise itself? How do you come to decisions about, okay, we’ll make this piece of content, but we won’t make that piece of content just yet? Where do you meet? How often do you meet? What platforms are you using? And so on.

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[00:32:47] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well there’s a weekly meeting happening in the Make Slack of the training team. If anyone listening to this and doesn’t use Slack, just download Slack and join. How do we even call that? It’s always confusing. Well the Make Slack which is where all the WordPress folks are gathering around, and all the teams and all the info. And you can get really mad really quickly because of the massive amount of the information. But don’t worry about it just join training team. There’s a weekly meeting there.

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And then we do use GitHub, but don’t be scared if you hear of GitHub. We don’t really use it only for coding, we also use it to raise issues. And by raising an issue it can be a lesson plan idea, or a content idea. And this is where all the review is going on, and all of the conversation. And then all of a sudden the content is getting published into the website. It’s really easy. Everyone can contribute.

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I forgot to mention that I’m dyslexic. So it’s really hard for me to do many things related to languages and stuff, but I do manage to contribute successfully on those teams without any problem. And whenever I need a hand, a helping hand, there’s always someone to help you.

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You can also facilitate an online meetup in training team. That’s another great thing training team does. We do online meetups, and you can learn how to code custom Gutenberg block using React or JSX. Or you can just learn how to use a block, like the very first steps and one to do using Gutenberg.

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[00:34:29] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I think it’s really remarkable the rate at which I’m seeing content being produced. And also a shame in a sense that it doesn’t get mentioned quite as much as I wish it did. I have to sometimes go looking for these things or subscribe to an RSS feed. But if everybody in the WordPress community was just familiar with that URL, learn.wordpress.org, I think you’d be hard pressed to find nothing there which should be of interest to you.

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Whether you’re kind of an expert in building blocks, or whether you just want some primer, some kind of 101 of how to begin using WordPress. It is increasingly an amazing resource. And so bravo for all of the things that are being done there.

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I’m just curious about the kind of jobs that might be needed, because I’ve seen video content. So obviously at some point somebody needed to sit down with a screen and record that stuff. But presumably there was some kind of script that was created for that. I’ve seen lots of written tutorials. I’ve seen things which you could describe as courses, where you know one thing leads onto another thing, there is isolated bits of content. What kind of tasks are in need of being done to keep that initiative going?

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[00:35:43] Vagelis Papaioannou: That’s a really hard one. I mean everyone can find something to do. You can do the meeting notes, which I can’t because I’m dyslexic, but you can. You can do a translation. You can get a lesson plan and translate it. You can create a lesson plan if you have an expertise, or you can create a tutorial. Or if you can create a video tutorial you can get the video and do the transcript.

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You can review the content and test what the lesson plan guides you to do and see if it’s correct or not. And then provide feedback for the author to correct it, or say, yeah it’s great just publish it. There’s so many things from the smallest to the biggest one. And it’s really easy, even with an hour per week you can really make the difference.

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[00:36:33] Nathan Wrigley: I guess the whole imposter syndrome thing may be something that people are concerned about. You know they’re listening to this and think, do you know what I think I’ve got something that I want to share, but there’s probably somebody out there who’s better at it than me. You know they’re a better writer or they’ve got skills for putting videos out there.

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I guess we should address that. Are there any barriers to entry here in terms of the quality of what you’ve got to produce, or the level of expertise? You know if you are going to be writing or producing materials around, let’s say, something in WordPress Core, you probably do need to have some decent understanding of how that all works so that the content is actually useful.

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[00:37:09] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah definitely. Well if you get into coding, I mean if you do a coding tutorial I guess you should just follow the coding standards and all that stuff. But again, if you do a mistake it’s not the end of the world. Someone will point you out to the right direction and you’re going to figure it out.

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And as you may already know, and I’m sure you do, the best way to learn something really deeply is by writing or teaching it. This is the best way if you want to master a craft. If you try to teach it to somewhere else, you get really deep into it. And at the end of the day you will realise your weaknesses and you get better. Or you will realise that you shouldn’t have that imposter syndrome, which I have really bad.

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[00:37:55] Nathan Wrigley: Amazing. You’ve come on this podcast. Thank you for that. Takes a lot of effort.

\n\n\n\n

[00:37:59] Vagelis Papaioannou: I have to say it’s not an easy thing, but I mean I’m dyslexic it’s not something terrible. It’s just, okay I may read half your email and I may respond to half of it, or I may mess a few characters. But other people may get these as a weakness and step back because they have something like that. We have people in WordPress community that they can’t even see and they code daily, which is a massive thing.

\n\n\n\n

If you consider that there’s a person without sight who can create some kind of code which is what they do for a living. Why should I stay back because I have that minor thing? And people shouldn’t just stay back. Just join the community. If you know one thing to do just say, yeah I’m good at it, and you’ll find someone to pair with and create something really good and helpful for others.

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[00:38:56] Nathan Wrigley: What a cheery episode this has been. I really enjoyed this. And we talked about these fabulous events which you can get yourself involved in. Potentially make some real meaningful friendships and learn lots of things. But also pivoted to talk about the learn.wordpress.org, the training team if you like, and all of the free resources that are over there. A sort of sub community, if you like, of people there that you can also make friends with, and become part of the training team setup.

\n\n\n\n

If somebody has been listening to this today and has thought to themselves, do you know what, maybe that’s for me, I’m going to give it a go. Whether that’s organising an event or becoming interested in training and all of that kind of thing. Let’s tackle the training team bit first. Where would you advise people to go? You mentioned obviously Slack but I wondered if there was somewhere else that you wanted to mention as well.

\n\n\n\n

[00:39:44] Vagelis Papaioannou: If you don’t want to join Slack yet, just go to learn.wordpress.org, and this is the main website. And at the very bottom of your screen you’ll find the CTA. Have an idea for your content? Let us know. Apply to present a tutorial. Submit the topic idea. Just click any of those buttons. And on top of that there’s another block which says get involved, learn how to contribute. And you get all the info from there. It’s really easy. And there’s nothing scary into the process of being part of the team. There are all really welcoming and we’re really all good people. Well most of us.

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[00:40:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah thank you. And then pivot that to events, meetups and WordCamps. Where would you point people if they want to begin that journey?

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[00:40:32] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well I guess from their local community. Also be aware that you may see that there are a few faces that are again and again on the same event. An example, I’ve done a presentation at WordCamp Athens 2022. I’ve done one in 2021 I guess. I can’t remember. And then I did one in 19.

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This is not because I’m special or something. This is because you didn’t apply. If you apply. You may get up there. We need help. We need more people. We need more organisers. We need more people to do presentations, more speakers if you want to. Don’t block yourself, just find your local community, get in touch with them, apply to facilitate an event, apply as a speaker.

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It’s really easy. And even if you don’t get approved at the first time you apply as a speaker just do it again. Try again. It’s not the end of the world and it’s not personal. It’s probably because that specific event had too many applications, or maybe your presentation was too specific to something.

\n\n\n\n

I mean I’m a coder but I’m not going to do a really deep, deep coding presentation because I know most folks are not coming for that on a local WordCamp, and they kind of get bored and we need to sell these tickets. So we had to do some funny presentations coding wise, but not just open your terminal people, type npm install and do that stuff. Yeah you know what I mean?

\n\n\n\n

[00:42:09] Nathan Wrigley: If somebody has been listening to this podcast, this is more particular to you, where, if you wish to share that is, where would people be able to contact you? Perhaps you’ve got a website that you want to mention or a, I don’t know, a social media handle that you feel is a good way for people to get in touch.

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[00:42:25] Vagelis Papaioannou: I do have a website which I made at WordCamp Athens some year. I can’t remember. It was a presentation about headless WordPress, which was really good back then when people started to freak out about Gutenberg. And I don’t use it at all, so there’s no content in there, so don’t use that.

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Find me on GitHub. My username is vagelisp. Or on Twitter, and my handle on Twitter, it’s VagPapDev. Yeah that’s hard. V A G P A P D E V. That’s my Twitter handle. You can find me there. And of course on any of the Make Slack channels as Vagelis. And on Greek community Facebook and Slack channels as Vagelis as well.

\n\n\n\n

Some may spot it that my name is spelled wrong and you may seen this with an n, Vangelis. I just don’t like it with a name. It’s my name. I’ll write it however I want.

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[00:43:20] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. I do hope that you get some people reaching out. That would be really great. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

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[00:43:27] Vagelis Papaioannou: Thanks for having me. It was really fun. And I really hope someone got something out of it, and someone got the boost, they may wanted to join their local community.

\n
\n\n\n\n

On the podcast today we have Vagelis Papaioannou.

\n\n\n\n

Vagelis is a software engineer from Greece. His journey with coding began during his elementary school years, in an experimental coding class. This sparked a lifelong passion within him. His love for WordPress dates back to the early versions. For the last eight to nine years, he has actively participated in the Greek WordPress community, engaging in various roles such as organising WordCamps and meetups. Vagelis also contributes to multiple teams, cherishing the small contributions that allow everyone to make a difference. He also serves as the Project Translation lead for the Greek language.

\n\n\n\n

Vagelis, although a self confessed introvert, shares his initial struggles with being a part of the community and attending local meetups. He encourages people to step outside their comfort zones and attend events like WordCamps and meetups, where they\u2019re likely to discover a welcoming and friendly atmosphere.

\n\n\n\n

Vagelis recounts his own experience of attending such events, initially feeling scared, but eventually having an enjoyable time, making many lasting friendships along the way. He talks about how local meetups are more casual gatherings than WordCamps. People come together to talk about WordPress, learn, and spend time with like-minded individuals. From meetups by the sea to forest walks, these events offer opportunities for both education and social engagement.

\n\n\n\n

On the subject of WordCamps, Vagelis unravels the magic behind these larger, multi-day events with presentations and a contributor day. He emphasises that contribution to the community doesn’t necessarily require coding skills, and encourages more people to get involved. WordCamps are not only platforms for learning and exchanging ideas, but they also provide a space for attendees to have fun, network, and explore all manner of other opportunities.

\n\n\n\n

We talk about the importance of the code of conduct at WordCamps. This code ensures that participants know that they are going to have a safe and inclusive experience. With attendees joining from all corners of the globe, these events attract a diverse range of individuals who are passionate about the software and the community.

\n\n\n\n

We then talk about the effort required to organise these events, Vagelis explains why he\u2019s willing to dedicate his time and energy to be part of such complex projects. He talks about the benefits participants gain from taking an active role, whether as organisers, speakers, or volunteer. As Vagelis shares his personal experiences in organising and participating in events like WordCamp Athens, he strongly advocates for more community involvement and highlights the need for new organisers to get involved to allow the community to meet up once again.

\n\n\n\n

We then get into a discussion of other ways that you can be involved, this time in the Learn project, which is making freely available materials so that people can learn about WordPress at a time that suits them.

\n\n\n\n

Vagelis talks about what the Learn team does and how you can join them. He discusses how the team works, using GitHub for collaboration and accommodating individuals with various skills and abilities. From the educational content available on the learn.wordpress.org website, to the valuable connections made through hallway chats, Vagelis emphasises the power and importance of the WordPress community.

\n\n\n\n

If you’re a seasoned WordPress enthusiast or just starting your journey in contributions, this episode is for you.

\n\n\n\n

Useful links.

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Learn WordPress

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Vagelis’ GitHub

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Vagelis’ Twitter

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Greek Community Facebook Group

\n", "content_text": "Transcript\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast. From WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how to learn to use WordPress and help with events.\n\n\n\nIf you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have a Vagelis Papaioannou. Vagelis is a software engineer from Greece. His journey with coding began during his elementary school years. In an experimental coding class. This sparked a lifelong passion within him.\n\n\n\nHis love for WordPress dates back to the early versions. For the last eight to nine years, he has actively participated in the Greek WordPress community, engaging in various roles, such as organizing WordCamps and meetups. Vagelis also contributes to multiple teams, cherishing the small contributions that allow everyone to make a difference. He also serves as the project translation lead for the Greek language.\n\n\n\nVagelis, although a self-confessed introvert, shares his initial struggles with being a part of the community and attending local meetups. He encourages people to step outside their comfort zones, and attend events like WordCamps and meetups, where they’re likely to discover a welcoming and friendly atmosphere. Vagelis recounts his own experience of attending such events, initially feeling scared, but eventually having an enjoyable time, making many lasting friendships along the way.\n\n\n\nHe talks about how local meetups are more casual gatherings than WordCamps. People come together to talk about WordPress, learn, and spend time with like-minded individuals. From meetups by the sea to forest walks, these events offer opportunities for both education and social engagement.\n\n\n\nOn the subject of WordCamps, Vagelis unravels the magic behind these larger multi-day events, with presentations and a contributor day. He emphasizes that contribution to the community doesn’t necessarily require coding skills, and encourages more people to get involved. WordCamps are not only platforms for learning and exchanging ideas, but they also provide a space for attendees to have fun, network, and explore all manner of other opportunities.\n\n\n\nWe talk about the importance of the code of conduct at WordCamps. This code ensures that participants know that they’re going to have a safe and inclusive experience. With attendees joining from all corners of the globe, these events attract a diverse range of individuals who are passionate about the software and the community.\n\n\n\nWe then talk about the effort required to organize these events. Vagelis explains why he’s willing to dedicate his time and energy to be a part of such complex projects. He talks about the benefits participants gain from taking an active role, whether as an organizer, speaker or volunteer.\n\n\n\nAs Vagelis shares his personal experiences in organizing and participating in events like WordCamp, Athens, he strongly advocates for more community involvement, and highlights the need for new organizers to get involved, to allow the community to meet up once again.\n\n\n\nWe then get into a discussion of other ways that you can be involved. This time in the Learn project, which is making freely available materials so that people can learn about WordPress at a time that suits them. Vagelis talks about what the Learn team does, and how you can join them. He discusses how the team works using GitHub for collaboration and accommodating individuals with various skills and abilities.\n\n\n\nFrom the educational content available on the learn.wordpress.org website., To the valuable connections made through hallway chats, Vagelis emphasizes the power and importance of the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nIf you’re a seasoned WordPress enthusiast, or just starting your journey in contributions, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast. Where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Vagelis Papaioannou.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast today by Vagelis Papaioannou. Hello Vagelis!\n\n\n\n[00:05:27] Vagelis Papaioannou: Hello Nathan. Hello.\n\n\n\n[00:05:28] Nathan Wrigley: Very nice to have you on the podcast today. Just to give you a little bit of orientation, right at the outset we’re going to be talking about WordPress events. We might well dip our toes into WordCamp Europe. We might talk about local meetups and WordCamps in general. And then we might also pivot to talk about something which Vagelis is interested in, the training team.\n\n\n\nBut before that, just to paint a picture of who you are and what your experience is with WordPress. I wonder Vagelis if you wouldn’t mind just giving us your bio. You can start as early as you like. Anything you want to say about you and WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:06:04] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah of course. My name is Vagelis, I’m from Greece. I was raised and born in Athens and I live in Thessaloniki for the last 21 years. I’m a software engineer and my journey with coding started at elementary school where we had this experimental class of coding and I got really into it. And then that just made my passion.\n\n\n\nSo regarding WordPress, I’ve been using WordPress since the version one point something, I can’t really remember. I was using b2 and then I jumped over to WordPress. The last eight, nine years I’ve been part of the Greek community of WordPress. I’m trying to go to build as much as possible I can.\n\n\n\nAnd I’m a WordCamp organiser. I’m a meetup organiser. I do contribute across multiple teams like training, testing or photos and all that small bits that everyone can do. I’m also the P.T. for the Greek language translation. Yeah that’s pretty much it I guess.\n\n\n\n[00:07:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah that’s a lot. That really is a lot. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on. We didn’t discuss this in our pre recording chat, but I’m just wondering if you could paint the picture for us of what the state of the WordPress community in Greece is like. Just judging by my accent you can probably tell that I’m from the UK, and we might have a very different complexion here.\n\n\n\nWe’ve obviously just this year had a huge WordPress event in Greece. WordCamp Europe was held in Athens earlier this year. If I’m looking at it from the outside I get the impression that the Greek community is thriving because they put on events like WordCamp Europe, but I don’t know if that’s the case.\n\n\n\nHow is it being a Greek WordPress user? Are there plenty of events? Is the community thriving or is it in a different state?\n\n\n\n[00:07:59] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well the community is pretty big. We have a huge Facebook group with almost 20,000 people. We do two major events, two WordCamps, one in Athens and one in Thessaloniki. Sadly COVID 19 hit us really hard, so we had to stop for a while. We also stopped the meetups but we’re getting back to it. We’ve done like 10, 11 meetups the last year in Thessaloniki, and I know there are plans to do more meetups in other areas of Greece.\n\n\n\nWe also in planning of a special WordCamp. We try to figure out where to do that and how to plan it so we can apply for it on WordCamp Central. And yeah we have a lot of users, lots of people trying to translate, we have a lot of coders.\n\n\n\nWe also have a lot of people actually working in key companies regarding to WordPress, like Automattic and stuff like that. So yeah, we’re doing good I guess. But because I’m that kind of person, I know we could do better in some fields, but that’s a whole different story.\n\n\n\n[00:09:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I guess there’s always room for improvement. I can completely sympathise though with the whole COVID thing. I think it’s fair to say that it put the brakes on in the UK and I don’t think the community has quite got back to where it was. Things are beginning again. There are various different WordCamps and meetups and things like that which are coming back from being online.\n\n\n\nBroadly speaking I think a lot of them carried on in an online way, but I’m not sure that the interest was maintained. And so a lot of them are now coming back and hoping to be in the real world once more. But the flagship event, one of the bigger events that we had in the UK was WordCamp London and, as yet, it has not re emerged. So fingers crossed.\n\n\n\n[00:09:52] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah. I’ve been on the last WordCamp London and I had a blast. It was a great event. We had great fun and I really hope that it’s coming back.\n\n\n\n[00:10:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah fingers crossed for that as well. We’re going to talk a little bit about local meetups and what have you, and WordCamp Europe in particular. Let’s begin there. Let’s begin with WordCamp Europe and paint a picture.\n\n\n\nPrior to that though I wouldn’t mind having a conversation around the fact that it’s very obvious to somebody like you and somebody like me, who probably obsess more than is healthy for us about WordPress, but we know that there’s a community. We’re well aware that these events take place. There was a time though when I was a user of WordPress, I was using nothing else, it was probably about two years into my journey with WordPress that I actually noticed that there was a community at all.\n\n\n\nPrior to that I was simply going to the .org websites, downloading the software, using that software, and then you know rinse and repeat, building websites and so on. And then I can’t remember where, it was possibly on social media or something, I remember seeing a picture. The collection of people with WordPress T-shirts on standing in a hallway or something. And I was thinking well that’s curious, what are they doing?\n\n\n\nAnd then obviously as time went on, it occurred to me oh there are these events. So given that the listenership to this podcast could be anybody, do you want to just talk a little bit about what WordPress events are? What they endeavor to do? How they are organised? Whether that be big events, little events, meetups and so on.\n\n\n\n[00:11:21] Vagelis Papaioannou: Definitely. Well first of all I need to reassure everyone that’s listening to this that I’m an introvert. So it wasn’t easy for me to be a part of a community, any community. Or just go in a random place in a local meetup, open the door and just stay there with a bunch of random folks.\n\n\n\nSo if you feel like that, just come to any event even if it’s a WordCamp, a meetup, gathering, whatever. Just come, say hi and we’re all really welcoming and friendly. And you’re going to find someone who can really make you feel comfortable.\n\n\n\nI was aware of the community for a long time before I even managed to go on a local meetup here in Thessaloniki. And I remember me being there, just sitting on a chair, and I didn’t feel like talking to anyone. I was kind of scared. Scared grown up man, just in a strange place with other folks talking about software, which I love.\n\n\n\nSo the next time was better and I actually had fun. I made a few contacts which I can now call friends. And that’s pretty much what a local meetup is. It’s just a gathering. We just get a soda, we talk about WordPress. We may have a presentation, we may have snacks. It’s a cool two hours spending with friends around WordPress. That’s pretty much it.\n\n\n\nI remember our last meetup, it was a month ago and we did it on Thessaloniki seaside. So we had like this beautiful sea view and we were just 20 people talking about random stuff. And then the idea struck, and someone said, shall we do another one? But like in Naousa, which is a different place, a different town. There’s a forest there. We can walk through the forest and go eat and do some stuff. And we agreed to do that. So that’s our next meetup. It’s on September the 2nd. So it’s pretty informal.\n\n\n\nAnd the same goes for WorldCamps, but WorldCamp is a bigger event. It’s usually like a couple of days event. There’s the presentation day and then there’s a contributor day where we gather and contribute.\n\n\n\nJust a side note, you don’t have to code to be a contributor. You can contribute in so many ways and we do need more contributors to help in so many teams.\n\n\n\nSo yeah WordCamps, like I said, WordCamps are informal. You can come to learn something but if you feel that you can’t learn anything you can just come and have fun with us. Have a nice lunch, meet new people, exchange ideas. And maybe at the end of the day you learn something new. I don’t want to digress so that’s pretty much it.\n\n\n\n[00:14:11] Nathan Wrigley: No I think that’s great. That was a really nice summary. And I think a really important point that you made there, especially for people who’ve never been to these events before, is the no code piece. That is to say, you really genuinely don’t need to know a line of code, you don’t need to know any of that whatsoever to enjoy the event.\n\n\n\nBecause usually, especially at the larger events, there’s a whole broad range of things that are being presented, workshops that are being given. Yeah, some of it will be about the code but a lot of it will be about other aspects of life on the internet. So it may be SEO, or marketing, or design, or something like that. So there’s definitely something for everybody.\n\n\n\nAnd also, I’ll throw into the mix, the somewhat undermentioned but very important hallway track. And this is simply when you’re not at a presentation. This is just hanging out, being in the corridor, chatting to people. And my understanding from chatting to people over the years is that quite a lot of serendipitous things happen during those hallway chats. You know friendships are created, businesses are formed, partnerships are made during those kinds of hallway random meetups. And it’s those things in particular are really nice.\n\n\n\n[00:15:24] Vagelis Papaioannou: And you also get the vibe of the market. So if you’re into that market, you get the vibe of where are we heading to? And that’s a good thing to always stay up to date.\n\n\n\n[00:15:36] Nathan Wrigley: I think also it might be worth mentioning that there is an enforced code of conduct. So there really are kind of rules and guidelines around what is acceptable. So if you have any fears or worries around that, what your participation would look like? How you would feel? How comfortable you would be or what have you, there are definite guidelines to make sure that your experience is as friendly as possible. Let’s put it that way.\n\n\n\nSo WordCamps are the big ones. Then we’ve got these more ad hoc local meetups where really you’re probably just capturing people from the local area. Maybe a few miles around, as opposed to people getting on aeroplanes. They typically happen more like once a month or something like that.\n\n\n\nWhy have you been so keen to contribute to these things though? Because my understanding is, especially an event like WordCamp Europe, you only have to attend to realise how breathtakingly large that undertaking is. The enterprise of putting on an event for several thousand people, coming from all over the globe.\n\n\n\nThe fact that it’s, the catering is done, the internet is provided, there’s AV, there’s translations, there’s people standing around with the correct T-shirt on, helpfully guiding people all over. What I’m trying to paint a picture of is just how breathtakingly large these things are, and complex are. So I’m just wondering, why do you give up your time in this way? What do you gain from it?\n\n\n\n[00:16:57] Vagelis Papaioannou: It is indeed a massive event especially the Europe, US and Asia. I mean it’s about giving back I guess, to the community because we all get something out of it. I’m that kind of person that I believe we should always try to give back, even if we don’t get enough. We should give more than we get. This is how I work.\n\n\n\nHowever, about WordCamp Europe, yes it was a massive thing. It required so many hours of work. Oh and I forgot to say that most of the times it is fun to get involved in these kind of stuff. And WordCamp Europe was fun for most of the time.\n\n\n\nAt the end of the day it is a massive event. It’s our country and we’re a bunch of people that we had to help to organise a good event, if you know what I mean. It’s always about giving back. I don’t have something specific in my mind. I never go out to try to find contacts. I never try to go out and do business or whatever. I just want to give back.\n\n\n\n[00:18:01] Nathan Wrigley: Certain sense of pleasure from being there, helping, making sure that it all runs smoothly. I can totally empathise with that.\n\n\n\nOkay so again, thinking about the listeners who have never been to such an event as that. I described the kind of things that might be on offer. You talked about the fact that volunteers, community members, helping out at these events are a crucial part of that puzzle.\n\n\n\nAre you able to just tell us some of the different roles? Now you might just cherry pick some that you know top of your mind. But just to give a flavor of the kind of things that you could be doing should you dip your toes into the water and offer your time at one of these events. What are the kind of things that you might find yourself involved with?\n\n\n\n[00:18:45] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well it’s easy to find something to do on these kinds of events. I mean if you can use Gutenberg you can join the website team. If you can design you can go with the design team. That’s pretty straightforward.\n\n\n\nBut if you just want to volunteer and that means that you will be there at the three days of the event, and you will all be spending time for the event while being there. Which is a different thing than being an organiser, because we had to work like months, several months before the event. So if you just want to be a volunteer you can do so many things from registration, or from helping the sponsors, from making sure everything is okay. From sitting on a corner and waiting for someone to ask you something.\n\n\n\nThere are so many roles, and I believe that volunteers are a huge part of any event, even if it’s WordCamp Europe or a local WordCamp. Without the volunteers we can do nothing. And also we need to make clear that the organisers are also volunteers. I had a chat with multiple people, and it looks like some folks believe that we’re getting paid or we get something like a benefit or I don’t know, whatever. But we don’t, we’re just volunteers just like the rest of the volunteers and we are all equal during this event.\n\n\n\n[00:20:08] Nathan Wrigley: As one of the lead organisers, given that you probably have months and months of work involved in it, well probably years is more the correct way of describing it. But given that you’ve probably got to make trips to the event, now you mentioned that you don’t get paid, but is there a system whereby, if you’re at that level and you’re organising things and you have to, I don’t know, let’s say for example you don’t live in Greece so you needed to make a journey to Athens. Are there any scenarios in which those things are paid for? Or are you always dipping into your own reserves for the WordCamp organising endeavor?\n\n\n\n[00:20:42] Vagelis Papaioannou: I guess you can just look for a sponsor for a company that would like to sponsor you to do that. But in my case I covered everything. I’m in Greece, I’m just 500 kilometers away from Athens, so that wasn’t a big thing. But for other people coming from other countries, and if you consider that this is during summertime, and summertime in Greece the prices are going high, because of the tourism and all that stuff. They have to book hotels just like did, so it’s a big expense to be fair. I mean, it’s a few thousand euros to be able to go to venue visits and then go to the event, and stay for a week.\n\n\n\n[00:21:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah that’s interesting. I certainly have met people who have been sponsored to attend these events. Yeah thank you for that.\n\n\n\nWe should probably also talk about the affordable nature of these events, because typically if you were to go to a three day conference, well in WordCamp’s case it’s often two days, and then there’s something called a contributor day which we’ll get onto in a minute.\n\n\n\nThe cost of these tickets is really low. If you were to attend an event of similar size and scope elsewhere, I feel that you might have a very high ticket price. But WordCamps don’t have this ticket price. Now I understand that some of the money is offset from the sponsors, but typically they’re very affordable to attend in the region of, I don’t know 40, 50, 60 euros, something along those lines.\n\n\n\nSo I just wanted to raise that as a point. You don’t need to have deep pockets if you want to attend. And if you’ve got local WordCamps it’s very likely that the cost will be low as well. In fact, in many cases, I think it would be true to say that the cost of your ticket probably wouldn’t even cover the food.\n\n\n\n[00:22:27] Vagelis Papaioannou: You always get your money back. And I mean our local WordCamps cost 25 euros. And you get lunch, you get swag, which swag is really, really important. And when someone goes to WordCamp Europe for the first time and you travel abroad, just bring an extra bag with you. You’re going to need it. I’m always bringing an extra bag when I go to WordCamp abroad.\n\n\n\nSo yeah you always get your money back. You get coffees, you get refreshments, lunch. WordCamp Europe was 50 euros. It’s really cheap because if you consider other events of that scale, the ticket could be like 600 euros easily. So yeah these are really cheap events.\n\n\n\n[00:23:09] Nathan Wrigley: I’ll also point out the fact that there are, there’s quite a few initiatives. Many of them actually I believe begun by a previous WordCamp Europe over many years. So for example, if you have children that you need to be taking with you, that is also something which at WordCamp Europe at least, I can’t speak about the other ones, there are facilities provided for that.\n\n\n\nAnd also great lengths have been gone to, to make sure that the events are accessible as possible. So by that I might mean that for example, if you need the use of a wheelchair or something like that, great lengths have gone to to make sure that you can access all of the different parts of the event.\n\n\n\nBut also that things like live translations are done, and not by an AI robot sitting in the corner but by a bank of real human beings, and all of those things really, they’re amazing. I’m quite proud in a sense that the WordPress community sees those things as important enough to spend the money on, to spend the time on, to get right.\n\n\n\n[00:24:13] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah that’s really great. And this is again done by volunteers, so we should just sit back and realise how much work we need to do in order to get these done. This year in Europe we had childcare and we also had workshops for children, which was really great. Every event should be inclusive, and accessibility should be our first concern.\n\n\n\nHowever this is something that brings a lot of drama into the community for numerous reasons. But yeah we should all help everybody, everyone, every single one to come to WordCamp and have fun.\n\n\n\n[00:24:56] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah nice. So I think we’ve painted a picture there hopefully of an event which is not only affordable, if you can make it there. The cost of the ticket is affordable, but also inclusive. There’s a whole variety of different things, you don’t need to be into one particular thing aka code.\n\n\n\nIf you want to attend, it’s very likely that you’ll meet some people, make some friendships. And in my case I think it’s fair to say that quite a lot of real, proper, genuine friendships have been built up from chatting to people who were stood next to me that I never knew just five minutes before.\n\n\n\nSo they’re the big events. Now I can’t remember whether you mentioned whether you’re a part of a more local meetup, but I think if we could just get into that quickly.\n\n\n\n[00:25:42] Vagelis Papaioannou: I’m organising me and a few friends, I’m going to call them friends because after all these years I consider them to be my friends. We’re organising the Thessaloniki meetups, which is a monthly meetup. We try to do presentations. We also have a workshop going on about creating what we called the first community block theme, but we didn’t do it fast enough. Someone else did that, but that’s fine. And we also tried to do a few outdoors meetups. The next one is in a month or so in the city near Thessaloniki.\n\n\n\nLocal meetups are great. We just have a beautiful small place, sponsored by a local business here in Thessaloniki. We gather once a month, we have some snacks, we have some refreshments, we exchange ideas, we have a laugh, we do the presentation and then everyone goes home. And then we just wait for the next one.\n\n\n\nIt’s really hard to organise these kind of events. It really needs some time to get them done correctly, and it’s always done by our personal time, so it’s not that easy. But it’s fun, and people really like these kind of events.\n\n\n\nOh, I forgot to mention, these events are free, so anyone can just come and join us. There’s no ticket or whatever. We do have a sponsor which helps a lot for snacks and refreshments, and we do have another sponsor for the venue, so we’re pretty much covered and yeah, it’s fun.\n\n\n\n[00:27:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah so much more frequent. The cadence is typically I think once a month, something like that. Much more local, so there’s no accommodation requirements. You just make your way there. Often in the evening when the work day is over. A couple of hours of presentation, like you said a few snacks and that’s the way it goes.\n\n\n\nSo a real nice way to keep up to date with your local WordPressers. And I think these things, once they kickstart themselves after the pandemic, I think really just events like that really do underpin the whole community. Without them I don’t know where we’d be in all honesty.\n\n\n\n[00:27:55] Vagelis Papaioannou: It’s an important part of the community, the meetups, I believe.\n\n\n\n[00:27:59] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I think so too. Let’s move on. Let’s pivot because we’ve got something else to talk about. So this is something called the training team. Obviously it’s connected with WordPress but I wouldn’t really say that I know too much about this. During the process of this interview hopefully I will be learning a lot about it as well.\n\n\n\nLet’s just lay the bedrock. What is the training team? What’s its purpose? How long has it been around? Any place you want to begin there really.\n\n\n\n[00:28:23] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well the training team is brilliant. There’s so much content for anyone and everyone in there. And how I met the training team. A year ago I wanted some resources about our local meetup, and I was talking with someone from the marketing team, and they told me just go to the training team and get some content.\n\n\n\nWhat’s a training team? I’ve never heard of it. And then I joined the training team and I’ve seen that there are so much good content in there. There are courses, there are lesson plans, there is so much content for all different levels of WordPress users or developers. For the last year it grew so much.\n\n\n\nThere are two main things in training team, tutorials and lesson plans. You can follow a tutorial and then something new, or you can get a lesson plan and use it on a local meetup, or on your class and teach the others something new. And in order to do that there are a bunch of volunteers working day and night creating content.\n\n\n\nBut most importantly keeping the content up to date, because that’s the most important thing. Whenever a new version of WordPress comes out and there are changes, we have to go back, review the content and do the appropriate edits. And also because we’re trying to be inclusive, we want to translate that content, and this is where I fit in. I try to translate as much content as possible in Greek. And I also have on the website in order to do some patterns, to do that translation easier for the translators.\n\n\n\nAnd now we’re in the state where we’re trying to find more people to contribute in translations because if we manage to translate all that content then there is no excuse for someone to say, I don’t know how to do that because everything is in there. So you can really learn something new every day from the training team. Which, by the way, can be found, this is confusing, at learn.wordpress.org. So training team is a team, but the website is learn, and this is where you go to learn WordPress. That’s the idea.\n\n\n\n[00:30:41] Nathan Wrigley: Do you know if there was a reason if you like, why the team was given a lot more focus and attention more recently? What I’m wondering is, we spoke a little while ago about the effect of things like the pandemic, and effect that that had on the community. I don’t know if it’s coincidental or if it’s intentional that more effort seems to be being put recently into things like providing training materials.\n\n\n\nThere seems to be a lot more of that being created, but I see a lot more of it being mentioned in different parts of the WordPress ecosystem. So I didn’t know if it was an endeavor just to bolster what we’ve already got, or if it was trying to react to, I don’t know, community dwindling, something like that.\n\n\n\n[00:31:21] Vagelis Papaioannou: It’s probably both. I also think that training team has more resources now. By saying resources I mean more people, and more people join every day, and the more people we get the more content we have. And it looks like it’s getting a lot of support from the community and also the team leads.\n\n\n\nThe previous ones,, and the ones we currently have did a really great job. I’m not going to get into names because I’m going to forget someone and it’s not fair. But they’re all great, and they all did so much about the training team. And I think this is part of the success of the team. It’s going to get better, I’m pretty sure about it.\n\n\n\n[00:32:02] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah so obviously it’s putting out content, it’s keeping that content up to date. WordPress is going through, well certainly in the last several years has gone through some real transformational changes. And it does feel like we’re with the advent of WordPress 6.2 and 6.3 and probably 6.4, there’s going to be a lot of changes, made and so communicating those changes is going to be really important.\n\n\n\nYou mentioned that the team leads have been great. You also mentioned that there seems to be a steady trickle of people heading in your direction, wanting to help out with the team. How does that team organise itself? How do you come to decisions about, okay, we’ll make this piece of content, but we won’t make that piece of content just yet? Where do you meet? How often do you meet? What platforms are you using? And so on.\n\n\n\n[00:32:47] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well there’s a weekly meeting happening in the Make Slack of the training team. If anyone listening to this and doesn’t use Slack, just download Slack and join. How do we even call that? It’s always confusing. Well the Make Slack which is where all the WordPress folks are gathering around, and all the teams and all the info. And you can get really mad really quickly because of the massive amount of the information. But don’t worry about it just join training team. There’s a weekly meeting there.\n\n\n\nAnd then we do use GitHub, but don’t be scared if you hear of GitHub. We don’t really use it only for coding, we also use it to raise issues. And by raising an issue it can be a lesson plan idea, or a content idea. And this is where all the review is going on, and all of the conversation. And then all of a sudden the content is getting published into the website. It’s really easy. Everyone can contribute.\n\n\n\nI forgot to mention that I’m dyslexic. So it’s really hard for me to do many things related to languages and stuff, but I do manage to contribute successfully on those teams without any problem. And whenever I need a hand, a helping hand, there’s always someone to help you.\n\n\n\nYou can also facilitate an online meetup in training team. That’s another great thing training team does. We do online meetups, and you can learn how to code custom Gutenberg block using React or JSX. Or you can just learn how to use a block, like the very first steps and one to do using Gutenberg.\n\n\n\n[00:34:29] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I think it’s really remarkable the rate at which I’m seeing content being produced. And also a shame in a sense that it doesn’t get mentioned quite as much as I wish it did. I have to sometimes go looking for these things or subscribe to an RSS feed. But if everybody in the WordPress community was just familiar with that URL, learn.wordpress.org, I think you’d be hard pressed to find nothing there which should be of interest to you.\n\n\n\nWhether you’re kind of an expert in building blocks, or whether you just want some primer, some kind of 101 of how to begin using WordPress. It is increasingly an amazing resource. And so bravo for all of the things that are being done there.\n\n\n\nI’m just curious about the kind of jobs that might be needed, because I’ve seen video content. So obviously at some point somebody needed to sit down with a screen and record that stuff. But presumably there was some kind of script that was created for that. I’ve seen lots of written tutorials. I’ve seen things which you could describe as courses, where you know one thing leads onto another thing, there is isolated bits of content. What kind of tasks are in need of being done to keep that initiative going?\n\n\n\n[00:35:43] Vagelis Papaioannou: That’s a really hard one. I mean everyone can find something to do. You can do the meeting notes, which I can’t because I’m dyslexic, but you can. You can do a translation. You can get a lesson plan and translate it. You can create a lesson plan if you have an expertise, or you can create a tutorial. Or if you can create a video tutorial you can get the video and do the transcript.\n\n\n\nYou can review the content and test what the lesson plan guides you to do and see if it’s correct or not. And then provide feedback for the author to correct it, or say, yeah it’s great just publish it. There’s so many things from the smallest to the biggest one. And it’s really easy, even with an hour per week you can really make the difference.\n\n\n\n[00:36:33] Nathan Wrigley: I guess the whole imposter syndrome thing may be something that people are concerned about. You know they’re listening to this and think, do you know what I think I’ve got something that I want to share, but there’s probably somebody out there who’s better at it than me. You know they’re a better writer or they’ve got skills for putting videos out there.\n\n\n\nI guess we should address that. Are there any barriers to entry here in terms of the quality of what you’ve got to produce, or the level of expertise? You know if you are going to be writing or producing materials around, let’s say, something in WordPress Core, you probably do need to have some decent understanding of how that all works so that the content is actually useful.\n\n\n\n[00:37:09] Vagelis Papaioannou: Yeah definitely. Well if you get into coding, I mean if you do a coding tutorial I guess you should just follow the coding standards and all that stuff. But again, if you do a mistake it’s not the end of the world. Someone will point you out to the right direction and you’re going to figure it out.\n\n\n\nAnd as you may already know, and I’m sure you do, the best way to learn something really deeply is by writing or teaching it. This is the best way if you want to master a craft. If you try to teach it to somewhere else, you get really deep into it. And at the end of the day you will realise your weaknesses and you get better. Or you will realise that you shouldn’t have that imposter syndrome, which I have really bad.\n\n\n\n[00:37:55] Nathan Wrigley: Amazing. You’ve come on this podcast. Thank you for that. Takes a lot of effort.\n\n\n\n[00:37:59] Vagelis Papaioannou: I have to say it’s not an easy thing, but I mean I’m dyslexic it’s not something terrible. It’s just, okay I may read half your email and I may respond to half of it, or I may mess a few characters. But other people may get these as a weakness and step back because they have something like that. We have people in WordPress community that they can’t even see and they code daily, which is a massive thing.\n\n\n\nIf you consider that there’s a person without sight who can create some kind of code which is what they do for a living. Why should I stay back because I have that minor thing? And people shouldn’t just stay back. Just join the community. If you know one thing to do just say, yeah I’m good at it, and you’ll find someone to pair with and create something really good and helpful for others.\n\n\n\n[00:38:56] Nathan Wrigley: What a cheery episode this has been. I really enjoyed this. And we talked about these fabulous events which you can get yourself involved in. Potentially make some real meaningful friendships and learn lots of things. But also pivoted to talk about the learn.wordpress.org, the training team if you like, and all of the free resources that are over there. A sort of sub community, if you like, of people there that you can also make friends with, and become part of the training team setup.\n\n\n\nIf somebody has been listening to this today and has thought to themselves, do you know what, maybe that’s for me, I’m going to give it a go. Whether that’s organising an event or becoming interested in training and all of that kind of thing. Let’s tackle the training team bit first. Where would you advise people to go? You mentioned obviously Slack but I wondered if there was somewhere else that you wanted to mention as well.\n\n\n\n[00:39:44] Vagelis Papaioannou: If you don’t want to join Slack yet, just go to learn.wordpress.org, and this is the main website. And at the very bottom of your screen you’ll find the CTA. Have an idea for your content? Let us know. Apply to present a tutorial. Submit the topic idea. Just click any of those buttons. And on top of that there’s another block which says get involved, learn how to contribute. And you get all the info from there. It’s really easy. And there’s nothing scary into the process of being part of the team. There are all really welcoming and we’re really all good people. Well most of us.\n\n\n\n[00:40:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah thank you. And then pivot that to events, meetups and WordCamps. Where would you point people if they want to begin that journey?\n\n\n\n[00:40:32] Vagelis Papaioannou: Well I guess from their local community. Also be aware that you may see that there are a few faces that are again and again on the same event. An example, I’ve done a presentation at WordCamp Athens 2022. I’ve done one in 2021 I guess. I can’t remember. And then I did one in 19.\n\n\n\nThis is not because I’m special or something. This is because you didn’t apply. If you apply. You may get up there. We need help. We need more people. We need more organisers. We need more people to do presentations, more speakers if you want to. Don’t block yourself, just find your local community, get in touch with them, apply to facilitate an event, apply as a speaker.\n\n\n\nIt’s really easy. And even if you don’t get approved at the first time you apply as a speaker just do it again. Try again. It’s not the end of the world and it’s not personal. It’s probably because that specific event had too many applications, or maybe your presentation was too specific to something.\n\n\n\nI mean I’m a coder but I’m not going to do a really deep, deep coding presentation because I know most folks are not coming for that on a local WordCamp, and they kind of get bored and we need to sell these tickets. So we had to do some funny presentations coding wise, but not just open your terminal people, type npm install and do that stuff. Yeah you know what I mean?\n\n\n\n[00:42:09] Nathan Wrigley: If somebody has been listening to this podcast, this is more particular to you, where, if you wish to share that is, where would people be able to contact you? Perhaps you’ve got a website that you want to mention or a, I don’t know, a social media handle that you feel is a good way for people to get in touch.\n\n\n\n[00:42:25] Vagelis Papaioannou: I do have a website which I made at WordCamp Athens some year. I can’t remember. It was a presentation about headless WordPress, which was really good back then when people started to freak out about Gutenberg. And I don’t use it at all, so there’s no content in there, so don’t use that.\n\n\n\nFind me on GitHub. My username is vagelisp. Or on Twitter, and my handle on Twitter, it’s VagPapDev. Yeah that’s hard. V A G P A P D E V. That’s my Twitter handle. You can find me there. And of course on any of the Make Slack channels as Vagelis. And on Greek community Facebook and Slack channels as Vagelis as well.\n\n\n\nSome may spot it that my name is spelled wrong and you may seen this with an n, Vangelis. I just don’t like it with a name. It’s my name. I’ll write it however I want.\n\n\n\n[00:43:20] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. I do hope that you get some people reaching out. That would be really great. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.\n\n\n\n[00:43:27] Vagelis Papaioannou: Thanks for having me. It was really fun. And I really hope someone got something out of it, and someone got the boost, they may wanted to join their local community.\n\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Vagelis Papaioannou.\n\n\n\nVagelis is a software engineer from Greece. His journey with coding began during his elementary school years, in an experimental coding class. This sparked a lifelong passion within him. His love for WordPress dates back to the early versions. For the last eight to nine years, he has actively participated in the Greek WordPress community, engaging in various roles such as organising WordCamps and meetups. Vagelis also contributes to multiple teams, cherishing the small contributions that allow everyone to make a difference. He also serves as the Project Translation lead for the Greek language.\n\n\n\nVagelis, although a self confessed introvert, shares his initial struggles with being a part of the community and attending local meetups. He encourages people to step outside their comfort zones and attend events like WordCamps and meetups, where they\u2019re likely to discover a welcoming and friendly atmosphere.\n\n\n\nVagelis recounts his own experience of attending such events, initially feeling scared, but eventually having an enjoyable time, making many lasting friendships along the way. He talks about how local meetups are more casual gatherings than WordCamps. People come together to talk about WordPress, learn, and spend time with like-minded individuals. From meetups by the sea to forest walks, these events offer opportunities for both education and social engagement.\n\n\n\nOn the subject of WordCamps, Vagelis unravels the magic behind these larger, multi-day events with presentations and a contributor day. He emphasises that contribution to the community doesn’t necessarily require coding skills, and encourages more people to get involved. WordCamps are not only platforms for learning and exchanging ideas, but they also provide a space for attendees to have fun, network, and explore all manner of other opportunities.\n\n\n\nWe talk about the importance of the code of conduct at WordCamps. This code ensures that participants know that they are going to have a safe and inclusive experience. With attendees joining from all corners of the globe, these events attract a diverse range of individuals who are passionate about the software and the community.\n\n\n\nWe then talk about the effort required to organise these events, Vagelis explains why he\u2019s willing to dedicate his time and energy to be part of such complex projects. He talks about the benefits participants gain from taking an active role, whether as organisers, speakers, or volunteer. As Vagelis shares his personal experiences in organising and participating in events like WordCamp Athens, he strongly advocates for more community involvement and highlights the need for new organisers to get involved to allow the community to meet up once again.\n\n\n\nWe then get into a discussion of other ways that you can be involved, this time in the Learn project, which is making freely available materials so that people can learn about WordPress at a time that suits them.\n\n\n\nVagelis talks about what the Learn team does and how you can join them. He discusses how the team works, using GitHub for collaboration and accommodating individuals with various skills and abilities. From the educational content available on the learn.wordpress.org website, to the valuable connections made through hallway chats, Vagelis emphasises the power and importance of the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nIf you’re a seasoned WordPress enthusiast or just starting your journey in contributions, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nUseful links.\n\n\n\nLearn WordPress\n\n\n\nVagelis’ GitHub\n\n\n\nVagelis’ Twitter\n\n\n\nGreek Community Facebook Group", "date_published": "2023-09-20T10:00:00-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-16T06:02:10-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/91-Vagelis-Papaioannou-on-How-to-Learn-to-Use-WordPress-and-Help-With-Events.jpeg", "tags": [ "learn wordpress", "podcast" ], "summary": "On the podcast today we have Vagelis Papaioannou. Vagelis is a software engineer from Greece. His journey with coding began during his elementary school years, in an experimental coding class. This sparked a lifelong passion within him. His love for WordPress dates back to the early versions. He's on the podcast today to talk about two things. First we chat about his experiences contributing to WordPress events, both local meetups and WordCamps. We then get into a discussion about his work with the Learn Team; how they work and what resources they're creating. If you're a seasoned WordPress enthusiast or just starting your journey in contributions, this episode is for you.", "attachments": [ { "url": "https://episodes.castos.com/601a97348e9993-63339407/9bbcfe0a-4226-4cf9-9acf-99a5d3014725-91-Vagelis-Papaioannou-on-How-to-Learn-to-Use-WordPress-and-Help-With-Events.mp3", "mime_type": "", "size_in_bytes": 0 } ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148993", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wp-tavern-launches-forums", "title": "WP Tavern Launches Forums", "content_html": "\n

WP Tavern is launching forums today. If you have ever sat up all night with a feverish infant, searching for answers on a mommy messaging board, hunted down solutions for obscure bugs, or wasted an entire afternoon on a subreddit, then you know that forums are not dead.

\n\n\n\n

Since the early days of BBSes (Wikipedia link for you young whippersnappers), which housed prototypical forums before the advent of the World Wide Web, modern forums have evolved and established themselves as a stalwart, timeless medium for asynchronous communication, fostering communities, and sharing knowledge among individuals with diverse interests and needs.

Today we will begin exploring how forums can help expand conversations that originate on the Tavern, especially within the comments of a post. Our new forums are powered by bbPress, which enables readers to create discussions by visiting the comment section of an article and clicking on \u201cCreate forum topic from comment\u201d based on comments that you find particularly insightful.

\n\n\n\n

Under the forum called \u201cDiscussion\u201d you will find topics that have been created based on article comments. This offers readers a way to engage further with comments that spark larger discussions, long after the article has been published and comments have closed. This feature is available alongside traditional bbPress forums where logged-in users can create topics.

\n\n\n\n

If a forum topic already exists for a comment, a link labeled \u201cContinue Discussion in Forum\u201d will appear on that topic, leading to the ongoing forum discussion. This prevents people from creating multiple forum topics from a single comment. These topics will include a link back to the original comment at the top of the thread. It is also still possible to add regular (non-forum) replies to comments as usual.

\n\n\n\n

Readers must be registered and logged in order to post on the forums. At this time, topics and replies will continue to be moderated before they are published. We have tried wild west commenting style in the past and it doesn’t work well for raising the level of discourse and engagement that we hope to have in our forums. Come join us, introduce yourself, and start some new topics.

\n", "content_text": "WP Tavern is launching forums today. If you have ever sat up all night with a feverish infant, searching for answers on a mommy messaging board, hunted down solutions for obscure bugs, or wasted an entire afternoon on a subreddit, then you know that forums are not dead. \n\n\n\nSince the early days of BBSes (Wikipedia link for you young whippersnappers), which housed prototypical forums before the advent of the World Wide Web, modern forums have evolved and established themselves as a stalwart, timeless medium for asynchronous communication, fostering communities, and sharing knowledge among individuals with diverse interests and needs.Today we will begin exploring how forums can help expand conversations that originate on the Tavern, especially within the comments of a post. Our new forums are powered by bbPress, which enables readers to create discussions by visiting the comment section of an article and clicking on \u201cCreate forum topic from comment\u201d based on comments that you find particularly insightful.\n\n\n\nUnder the forum called \u201cDiscussion\u201d you will find topics that have been created based on article comments. This offers readers a way to engage further with comments that spark larger discussions, long after the article has been published and comments have closed. This feature is available alongside traditional bbPress forums where logged-in users can create topics.\n\n\n\nIf a forum topic already exists for a comment, a link labeled \u201cContinue Discussion in Forum\u201d will appear on that topic, leading to the ongoing forum discussion. This prevents people from creating multiple forum topics from a single comment. These topics will include a link back to the original comment at the top of the thread. It is also still possible to add regular (non-forum) replies to comments as usual.\n\n\n\nReaders must be registered and logged in order to post on the forums. At this time, topics and replies will continue to be moderated before they are published. We have tried wild west commenting style in the past and it doesn’t work well for raising the level of discourse and engagement that we hope to have in our forums. Come join us, introduce yourself, and start some new topics.", "date_published": "2023-09-19T13:48:22-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-19T13:48:24-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/comment.jpg", "tags": [ "bbPress", "forums", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148845", "url": "https://wptavern.com/openverse-wins-2023-open-education-award-seeks-community-feedback-for-2024-roadmap", "title": "Openverse Wins\u00a02023 Open Education Award, Seeks Community Feedback for 2024 Roadmap", "content_html": "\n

Openverse has landed an Open Education Award for Excellence in the Open Infrastructure category. Open Education Global (OEG) is a non-profit organization that supports the use of open education to expand education access and affordability. Its annual awards recognize outstanding contributions to the Open Education community and its network of resources.

\n\n\n\n

Openverse is one of 16 winners selected from more than 170 applicants. The award reviewers suggested Openverse “should be the primary recommended search for OER development,” due to its clear licensing and easy, one-click attribution, among other features:

\n\n\n\n
\n

That easy attribution feature (one-click copy for a full formed Creative Commons attribution) might be reason enough for an award, but the features to filter searches by source collections and other parameters (image orientation, specific license) provides seekers of open content important affordances to find clearly licensed media they can reuse.

\n\n\n\n

Openverse should be the primary recommended search for OER development, as the licensing is explicitly clear, not subject to third party owners writing their own license), being of great value for projects that mix content from multiple sources.\u00a0

\n
\n\n\n\n

Openverse has made significant progress since coming under the WordPress project’s umbrella. In the past year, the team has added usage analytics, made major improvements to its user interface, moved Openverse out of an iFrame, added filtering and blurring of sensitive results (nearing completion), among many other technical improvements. The team is requesting feedback as they begin planning the 2024 roadmap.

\n\n\n\n

“This project thrives on collaboration, and as we begin plotting our course for 2024, we want to hear from\u00a0you,” Automattic-sponsored Openverse data engineer Madison Swain-Bowden said. “Have an idea that could improve Openverse? Noticed a feature gap we haven\u2019t addressed? Have suggestions to improve existing features? We are eager to hear all about it!”

\n\n\n\n

Anyone who wants to contribute a proposal regarding Openverse’s future can publish a comment to the team’s blog post requesting feedback. For more information about Openverse’s current projects and those that are on hold, check out the notes from the team’s most recent monthly meeting.

\n", "content_text": "Openverse has landed an Open Education Award for Excellence in the Open Infrastructure category. Open Education Global (OEG) is a non-profit organization that supports the use of open education to expand education access and affordability. Its annual awards recognize outstanding contributions to the Open Education community and its network of resources.\n\n\n\nOpenverse is one of 16 winners selected from more than 170 applicants. The award reviewers suggested Openverse “should be the primary recommended search for OER development,” due to its clear licensing and easy, one-click attribution, among other features:\n\n\n\n\nThat easy attribution feature (one-click copy for a full formed Creative Commons attribution) might be reason enough for an award, but the features to filter searches by source collections and other parameters (image orientation, specific license) provides seekers of open content important affordances to find clearly licensed media they can reuse.\n\n\n\nOpenverse should be the primary recommended search for OER development, as the licensing is explicitly clear, not subject to third party owners writing their own license), being of great value for projects that mix content from multiple sources.\u00a0\n\n\n\n\nOpenverse has made significant progress since coming under the WordPress project’s umbrella. In the past year, the team has added usage analytics, made major improvements to its user interface, moved Openverse out of an iFrame, added filtering and blurring of sensitive results (nearing completion), among many other technical improvements. The team is requesting feedback as they begin planning the 2024 roadmap.\n\n\n\n“This project thrives on collaboration, and as we begin plotting our course for 2024, we want to hear from\u00a0you,” Automattic-sponsored Openverse data engineer Madison Swain-Bowden said. “Have an idea that could improve Openverse? Noticed a feature gap we haven\u2019t addressed? Have suggestions to improve existing features? We are eager to hear all about it!”\n\n\n\nAnyone who wants to contribute a proposal regarding Openverse’s future can publish a comment to the team’s blog post requesting feedback. For more information about Openverse’s current projects and those that are on hold, check out the notes from the team’s most recent monthly meeting.", "date_published": "2023-09-18T18:00:45-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-18T18:00:46-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screen-Shot-2023-09-18-at-5.57.11-PM.png", "tags": [ "Openverse", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148756", "url": "https://wptavern.com/new-plugin-adds-citations-and-bibliography-block-to-wordpress-editor", "title": "New Plugin Adds Citations and Bibliography Block to WordPress Editor", "content_html": "\n

Citations is a new plugin created by WP Munich\u00a0and the team at\u00a0Luehrsen // Heinrich, a German WordPress agency. It makes it easy to create in-text citations and assign them a specific source. Most of the existing plugins that do this are for older versions of WordPress. This one is created specifically for those using the block editor.

\n\n\n\n

Citations introduces a new menu item to the rich text formatting toolbar. Users can highlight the text they want to cite, click ‘Cite’ in the toolbar, and then define the source in the pop-up by inputting the source information into the fields provided.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

The Citations plugin includes one Bibliography block, which will be automatically populated with all the sources of the in-text citations added in the content. Citations are linked to the corresponding source inside the Bibliography block. The block can be positioned anywhere in the document, although readers likely expect it at the bottom.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
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Users can edit the citations and the sources in the Bibliography block by clicking on them.

\n\n\n\n

What’s the difference between citations and WordPress’ core Footnotes block? Although both are used in academic and scholarly writing to provide references and additional information about sources used in a document, there are a few key differences.

\n\n\n\n

Citations credit the original source of the information with all the source details in the bibliography at the end of the document. Footnotes are more flexible in that they can include additional context or comments at the bottom of the document, to keep the text from becoming too cluttered with explanatory notes. They may also be used to source citations with the author, title, and publication details, but do not always follow the bibliography format.

\n\n\n\n

The Citations plugin also includes a pattern that will insert some Lorem Ipsum paragraphs with citations and a sample bibliography with sources at the bottom. This gives users an idea of how the plugin can be used to structure a document for citing sources, if they are just getting started. Users can search for “Citations Demo” in the pattern search bar to find it.

\n\n\n\n

Download the plugin for free from WordPress.org, or give it a test drive using WordPress Playground.

\n", "content_text": "Citations is a new plugin created by WP Munich\u00a0and the team at\u00a0Luehrsen // Heinrich, a German WordPress agency. It makes it easy to create in-text citations and assign them a specific source. Most of the existing plugins that do this are for older versions of WordPress. This one is created specifically for those using the block editor.\n\n\n\nCitations introduces a new menu item to the rich text formatting toolbar. Users can highlight the text they want to cite, click ‘Cite’ in the toolbar, and then define the source in the pop-up by inputting the source information into the fields provided.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe Citations plugin includes one Bibliography block, which will be automatically populated with all the sources of the in-text citations added in the content. Citations are linked to the corresponding source inside the Bibliography block. The block can be positioned anywhere in the document, although readers likely expect it at the bottom.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nUsers can edit the citations and the sources in the Bibliography block by clicking on them.\n\n\n\nWhat’s the difference between citations and WordPress’ core Footnotes block? Although both are used in academic and scholarly writing to provide references and additional information about sources used in a document, there are a few key differences. \n\n\n\nCitations credit the original source of the information with all the source details in the bibliography at the end of the document. Footnotes are more flexible in that they can include additional context or comments at the bottom of the document, to keep the text from becoming too cluttered with explanatory notes. They may also be used to source citations with the author, title, and publication details, but do not always follow the bibliography format.\n\n\n\nThe Citations plugin also includes a pattern that will insert some Lorem Ipsum paragraphs with citations and a sample bibliography with sources at the bottom. This gives users an idea of how the plugin can be used to structure a document for citing sources, if they are just getting started. Users can search for “Citations Demo” in the pattern search bar to find it.\n\n\n\nDownload the plugin for free from WordPress.org, or give it a test drive using WordPress Playground.", "date_published": "2023-09-18T13:43:08-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-18T13:43:10-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/citations-plugin.png", "tags": [ "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148825", "url": "https://wptavern.com/developers-claim-damaged-trust-following-public-confrontations-with-wordpress-leadership", "title": "Developers Claim Damaged Trust Following Public Confrontations with WordPress Leadership", "content_html": "\n

The WordPress community is ending two days of heated discussions that rapidly descended into a mire of unbridled emotional confrontations across multiple social channels, following a tweet from John Blackbourn that raised concerns about WordPress.com plugin listings outranking WordPress.org on Google Search.

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Developers expressed concerns about the SEO impact of the practice of cloning WordPress.org’s plugin directory for use on WordPress.com, with no backlinks to the original plugin. Another concern is that it perpetuates the longstanding confusion between WordPress.org and WordPress.com.

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“I don’t think the SEO concern is real, and by that I mean that besides John’s screenshot, which I think is related to the .org en-gb subdomain decision/bug,” Matt Mullenweg told the Tavern when asked whether WordPress.com is considering not indexing these pages that duplicate content from WordPress.org.

\n\n\n\n

“For general searches I’m seeing .com 5 pages down,” he said. “Just looking at traffic to those pages, they don’t seem to be getting much if any from search engines! So I’m not really concerned about SEO of those pages.

\n\n\n\n

“The vast majority of the traffic to those is to logged in users. When they click ‘manage’ they can easily install it across multiple sites or see where it’s already installed, which actually works across .com and Jetpack sites.”

\n\n\n\n

He offered a similar explanation to Freemius founder Vova Feldman on X, who claimed that WordPress.com has an SEO advantage over independent plugins.

\n\n\n\n
\n

I think you're built on an assumption which is easily testable and false in my tests so far: "DOT com has an SEO advantage…"

As an easy one to look at, I did a logged-out search for [seo plugin for wordpress]. First page of results is now ads, from WP Engine, SEMRush, AIOSEO,\u2026

— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 14, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Plugin developers also expressed concerns about new users arriving to a plugin’s duplicated page on WordPress.com and seeing that the plugin is Free only on the (paid) Business plan. This gives the visitor the impression that the plugin isn’t available for free elsewhere, because there is no link back to WordPress.org with an explanation.

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Many WordPress.org plugin authors were not aware until recently that their plugin pages are being scraped for use on WordPress.com. Yesterday, Patchstack updated its readme file to ensure that WordPress.com users and visitors are made aware that the plugin is available for free in the official WordPress plugin repository, using the following text:

\n\n\n\n
\n

This plugin can be downloaded for free without any paid subscription from the official WordPress repository.

\n
\n\n\n\n

“I was at a Python conference last week and a guy came to our booth and said he has a WordPress site but he hasen\u2019t been able to purchase any plugins yet,” Patchstack CEO Oliver Sild said. “I told him that they are all free, and then it turned out he had a WordPress.com site where he has to pay to install any plugins. These people think that THIS IS the WordPress.”

\n\n\n\n

When asked if WordPress.com could at least link back to the .org plugin for logged-out views to eliminate some of the confusion, Mullenweg confirmed that he told Sild that WordPress.com would work on adding links to the .org equivalent page this week.

\n\n\n\n

“But that confusion that people claim is causing huge issues for WordPress isn’t supported by the numbers or growth of non-.com solutions over 17 years now,” Mullenweg said.

\n\n\n\n

“So at some point we should stop accepting it as within our top 100 issues for WordPress.

\n\n\n\n

“It’s much more likely like a road bump for some newbies, than an actual blocker, not unlike learning the difference between categories and tags, or how to identify a normal-looking comment that’s actually spam.”

\n\n\n\n

In response to WordPress developer Daniel Schutzsmith saying that WordPress.com is causing confusion for OSS, Mullenweg contended that it “creates a false dichotomy between WP on .com and ‘open source software.’ Every site on .com is part of the OSS community as much as on any other host.

\n\n\n\n

“When there is confusion, it assumes that it’s a top issue for WordPress. Nothing about WP’s growth, including vis a vis other projects, indicates that the existence of a .com and .org with the same name has held us back.”

\n\n\n\n

In support of his claims about the growth of non-WordPress.com solutions, he cited a W3Techs report on hosting company usage stats with extrapolated revenue on Post Status Slack.

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“On revenue: If you extrapolate out public domain numbers with plan pricing, and look at public filings like the amount GoDaddy makes from hosting and what % of that hosting is WP-powered, you pretty quickly see that GoDaddy, Newfold/Bluehost, Siteground, Hostinger, and WP Engine make more than .com from WordPress hosting.,” Mullenweg said. “You can check out those companies on the five for the future page.”

\n\n\n\n

Mullenweg has previously criticized large hosting companies for what he perceives to be a lack of support for the open source WordPress and WooCommerce projects in proportion to how much they benefit from the use of these platforms. His comments in Post Status yesterday indicate that while he is still unsatisfied with their core contributions, he acknowledges these companies as important to WordPress’ overall growth.

\n\n\n\n

“By the way, despite not looking great for core contributions, I think each of those companies has been essential for the growth of WordPress, and particularly the work they invest into upgrade PHP, MySQL, core auto-updates, plugin auto-updates, and security are crucial for the health of our ecosystem,” Mullenweg said.

\n\n\n\n

“It’s ‘cynically cool’ to hate on some of the bigger ones, but it’s a free and open market, none of their WP users are locked in and could easily switch to other hosts if they weren’t happy with the price and value they were getting. In fact by that measure, you could argue they’ve all done a much better job than .com at connecting with customers. Maybe I spend too much of .com’s engineering and investment on things like 2fa/passkeys, reader/notifications, stats, the mobile apps, Gutenberg, and Calypso and not enough on marketing or paying off affiliate host review sites.”

\n\n\n\n

The Damaging Community Impact of Public Confrontations

\n\n\n\n

Mullenweg continued to be active on Post Status Slack and X (Twitter) throughout the day, attempting to debunk claims that Automattic is exploiting open source contributors for profit. These interactions included personal attacks which followed after Mullenweg blocked WordPress Marketing Team co-rep S\u00e9 Reed who claimed that he is standing in the way of contributors improving the open source project and that he was “vilifying, dismissing, and insulting” the WordPress community.

\n\n\n\n

Some perceived him blocking Reed as him shutting down criticism, despite the fact that he said this is the first person he has ever blocked on Twitter. Although her comments were tangential to the original issue (the impact of the WordPress.com plugin listings), they became a focal point after Mullenweg lashed out at developer and product owner Dan Cameron who accused him of “actively doing more harm than good.”

\n\n\n\n
\n

Dan, you've built the Search Everything plugin which was popular early on, at some point got sold to Zemanta and abandoned. Hasn't been updated in 6 years.

You did "Smart eCart" for five years which lost to WP-eCommerce and Woo.

You did Sprout Apps / Invoices which has 2k\u2026

— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 14, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

I reached out to Automattic-sponsored WordPress Executive Director Josepha Haden-Chomphosy who said she did not have additional comments about what has happened with the recent confrontational exchanges, nor the impact on the community.

\n\n\n\n

“I find it kinda refreshing to see Matt throw an elbow or two and stick up for himself,” WP All Import Product Manager Joe Guilmette said in Post Status Slack.

\n\n\n\n

“It\u2019s not the greatest look, but that\u2019s for his PR people to sort out. I don\u2019t have any idea how I\u2019d handle being criticized so heavily for years by the people who built businesses and careers on a project that I helped bring in to the world, but it probably would be a lot worse than calling a few people out on Twitter.”

\n\n\n\n

Others who gathered in various Slack instances, watching things play out on Twitter, felt collectively traumatized by witnessing the interactions between Mullenweg and different community members.

\n\n\n\n

“I think Matt did way more damage this time than ever before,” one prominent WordPress consultant said, requesting to remain anonymous. “It generated good but quite wearied and sad expressions of grief and anguish in my company Slack and no doubt many others.

\n\n\n\n

“The instantly and deeply (however crudely researched) personal nature of Matt\u2019s attacks leads people to paranoid fears that he has a shitlist of enemies who are just regular people, not giant companies etc. It\u2019s a fearsome kind of punching down where the community gets stuck in the psychological position of the children of an abusive parent. Different personalities and different perspectives based on our own experiences lead us to different coping responses. But it\u2019s very ugly now to have the paranoia confirmed as Matt basically taunted the fact that he feeds on what he\u2019s told second or third hand about things others say about him in private.”

\n\n\n\n

Matt Cromwell, Senior Director of Customer Experience at StellarWP, said that discussions that start and stay on X/Twitter generally have very little fruit, especially when resolving something as complicated as the WordPress.com plugins SEO issue.

\n\n\n\n

“The community keeps leaning on this platform for these discussions but things like the impact of duplicate content on two sites both called ‘WordPress’ requires more nuanced and trusting conversations which Twitter can’t provide,” Cromwell said.

\n\n\n\n

“Mullenweg used the whole thing as an excuse to make so many of the plugin owners that drive WP adoption feel small. It was extremely hurtful to the trust product owners put into the leadership of the WP project. I expect to see more product owners prefer to build SaaS integrations with WP rather than dedicated products because they don’t trust that Mullenweg has their mutual interest in mind at all anymore \u2013 and I don’t see a way for him to ever put that genie back in the bottle after this behavior both on Twitter and in Post Status Slack.”

\n\n\n\n

WordPress developer and contributor Alex Standiford said Mullenweg’s public confrontations yesterday are “a bad look for WordPress, and deflate the passionate contributors who genuinely believe in WordPress.” Despite recent events, he continues to believe in the larger impact of people building open source software together.

\n\n\n\n

“I believe that WordPress isn’t software,” Standiford wrote on his blog. “It’s not community. It’s not a single person, no matter how significant that person thinks they are. I believe that WordPress is the manifestation of a belief that the web is at its best when it’s open. If I genuinely believed that forking WordPress would be good for WordPress, and the web, I’d contribute to it over the existing platform in a heartbeat.”

\n", "content_text": "The WordPress community is ending two days of heated discussions that rapidly descended into a mire of unbridled emotional confrontations across multiple social channels, following a tweet from John Blackbourn that raised concerns about WordPress.com plugin listings outranking WordPress.org on Google Search.\n\n\n\nDevelopers expressed concerns about the SEO impact of the practice of cloning WordPress.org’s plugin directory for use on WordPress.com, with no backlinks to the original plugin. Another concern is that it perpetuates the longstanding confusion between WordPress.org and WordPress.com.\n\n\n\n“I don’t think the SEO concern is real, and by that I mean that besides John’s screenshot, which I think is related to the .org en-gb subdomain decision/bug,” Matt Mullenweg told the Tavern when asked whether WordPress.com is considering not indexing these pages that duplicate content from WordPress.org. \n\n\n\n“For general searches I’m seeing .com 5 pages down,” he said. “Just looking at traffic to those pages, they don’t seem to be getting much if any from search engines! So I’m not really concerned about SEO of those pages.\n\n\n\n“The vast majority of the traffic to those is to logged in users. When they click ‘manage’ they can easily install it across multiple sites or see where it’s already installed, which actually works across .com and Jetpack sites.”\n\n\n\nHe offered a similar explanation to Freemius founder Vova Feldman on X, who claimed that WordPress.com has an SEO advantage over independent plugins.\n\n\n\n\nI think you're built on an assumption which is easily testable and false in my tests so far: "DOT com has an SEO advantage…"As an easy one to look at, I did a logged-out search for [seo plugin for wordpress]. First page of results is now ads, from WP Engine, SEMRush, AIOSEO,\u2026— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 14, 2023\n\n\n\n\nPlugin developers also expressed concerns about new users arriving to a plugin’s duplicated page on WordPress.com and seeing that the plugin is Free only on the (paid) Business plan. This gives the visitor the impression that the plugin isn’t available for free elsewhere, because there is no link back to WordPress.org with an explanation.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nMany WordPress.org plugin authors were not aware until recently that their plugin pages are being scraped for use on WordPress.com. Yesterday, Patchstack updated its readme file to ensure that WordPress.com users and visitors are made aware that the plugin is available for free in the official WordPress plugin repository, using the following text: \n\n\n\n\nThis plugin can be downloaded for free without any paid subscription from the official WordPress repository.\n\n\n\n\n“I was at a Python conference last week and a guy came to our booth and said he has a WordPress site but he hasen\u2019t been able to purchase any plugins yet,” Patchstack CEO Oliver Sild said. “I told him that they are all free, and then it turned out he had a WordPress.com site where he has to pay to install any plugins. These people think that THIS IS the WordPress.”\n\n\n\nWhen asked if WordPress.com could at least link back to the .org plugin for logged-out views to eliminate some of the confusion, Mullenweg confirmed that he told Sild that WordPress.com would work on adding links to the .org equivalent page this week.\n\n\n\n“But that confusion that people claim is causing huge issues for WordPress isn’t supported by the numbers or growth of non-.com solutions over 17 years now,” Mullenweg said. \n\n\n\n“So at some point we should stop accepting it as within our top 100 issues for WordPress.\n\n\n\n“It’s much more likely like a road bump for some newbies, than an actual blocker, not unlike learning the difference between categories and tags, or how to identify a normal-looking comment that’s actually spam.”\n\n\n\nIn response to WordPress developer Daniel Schutzsmith saying that WordPress.com is causing confusion for OSS, Mullenweg contended that it “creates a false dichotomy between WP on .com and ‘open source software.’ Every site on .com is part of the OSS community as much as on any other host. \n\n\n\n“When there is confusion, it assumes that it’s a top issue for WordPress. Nothing about WP’s growth, including vis a vis other projects, indicates that the existence of a .com and .org with the same name has held us back.”\n\n\n\nIn support of his claims about the growth of non-WordPress.com solutions, he cited a W3Techs report on hosting company usage stats with extrapolated revenue on Post Status Slack.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n“On revenue: If you extrapolate out public domain numbers with plan pricing, and look at public filings like the amount GoDaddy makes from hosting and what % of that hosting is WP-powered, you pretty quickly see that GoDaddy, Newfold/Bluehost, Siteground, Hostinger, and WP Engine make more than .com from WordPress hosting.,” Mullenweg said. “You can check out those companies on the five for the future page.”\n\n\n\nMullenweg has previously criticized large hosting companies for what he perceives to be a lack of support for the open source WordPress and WooCommerce projects in proportion to how much they benefit from the use of these platforms. His comments in Post Status yesterday indicate that while he is still unsatisfied with their core contributions, he acknowledges these companies as important to WordPress’ overall growth.\n\n\n\n“By the way, despite not looking great for core contributions, I think each of those companies has been essential for the growth of WordPress, and particularly the work they invest into upgrade PHP, MySQL, core auto-updates, plugin auto-updates, and security are crucial for the health of our ecosystem,” Mullenweg said. \n\n\n\n“It’s ‘cynically cool’ to hate on some of the bigger ones, but it’s a free and open market, none of their WP users are locked in and could easily switch to other hosts if they weren’t happy with the price and value they were getting. In fact by that measure, you could argue they’ve all done a much better job than .com at connecting with customers. Maybe I spend too much of .com’s engineering and investment on things like 2fa/passkeys, reader/notifications, stats, the mobile apps, Gutenberg, and Calypso and not enough on marketing or paying off affiliate host review sites.”\n\n\n\nThe Damaging Community Impact of Public Confrontations\n\n\n\nMullenweg continued to be active on Post Status Slack and X (Twitter) throughout the day, attempting to debunk claims that Automattic is exploiting open source contributors for profit. These interactions included personal attacks which followed after Mullenweg blocked WordPress Marketing Team co-rep S\u00e9 Reed who claimed that he is standing in the way of contributors improving the open source project and that he was “vilifying, dismissing, and insulting” the WordPress community. \n\n\n\nSome perceived him blocking Reed as him shutting down criticism, despite the fact that he said this is the first person he has ever blocked on Twitter. Although her comments were tangential to the original issue (the impact of the WordPress.com plugin listings), they became a focal point after Mullenweg lashed out at developer and product owner Dan Cameron who accused him of “actively doing more harm than good.”\n\n\n\n\nDan, you've built the Search Everything plugin which was popular early on, at some point got sold to Zemanta and abandoned. Hasn't been updated in 6 years.You did "Smart eCart" for five years which lost to WP-eCommerce and Woo.You did Sprout Apps / Invoices which has 2k\u2026— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 14, 2023\n\n\n\n\nI reached out to Automattic-sponsored WordPress Executive Director Josepha Haden-Chomphosy who said she did not have additional comments about what has happened with the recent confrontational exchanges, nor the impact on the community. \n\n\n\n“I find it kinda refreshing to see Matt throw an elbow or two and stick up for himself,” WP All Import Product Manager Joe Guilmette said in Post Status Slack.\n\n\n\n“It\u2019s not the greatest look, but that\u2019s for his PR people to sort out. I don\u2019t have any idea how I\u2019d handle being criticized so heavily for years by the people who built businesses and careers on a project that I helped bring in to the world, but it probably would be a lot worse than calling a few people out on Twitter.”\n\n\n\nOthers who gathered in various Slack instances, watching things play out on Twitter, felt collectively traumatized by witnessing the interactions between Mullenweg and different community members.\n\n\n\n“I think Matt did way more damage this time than ever before,” one prominent WordPress consultant said, requesting to remain anonymous. “It generated good but quite wearied and sad expressions of grief and anguish in my company Slack and no doubt many others.\n\n\n\n“The instantly and deeply (however crudely researched) personal nature of Matt\u2019s attacks leads people to paranoid fears that he has a shitlist of enemies who are just regular people, not giant companies etc. It\u2019s a fearsome kind of punching down where the community gets stuck in the psychological position of the children of an abusive parent. Different personalities and different perspectives based on our own experiences lead us to different coping responses. But it\u2019s very ugly now to have the paranoia confirmed as Matt basically taunted the fact that he feeds on what he\u2019s told second or third hand about things others say about him in private.”\n\n\n\nMatt Cromwell, Senior Director of Customer Experience at StellarWP, said that discussions that start and stay on X/Twitter generally have very little fruit, especially when resolving something as complicated as the WordPress.com plugins SEO issue. \n\n\n\n“The community keeps leaning on this platform for these discussions but things like the impact of duplicate content on two sites both called ‘WordPress’ requires more nuanced and trusting conversations which Twitter can’t provide,” Cromwell said. \n\n\n\n“Mullenweg used the whole thing as an excuse to make so many of the plugin owners that drive WP adoption feel small. It was extremely hurtful to the trust product owners put into the leadership of the WP project. I expect to see more product owners prefer to build SaaS integrations with WP rather than dedicated products because they don’t trust that Mullenweg has their mutual interest in mind at all anymore \u2013 and I don’t see a way for him to ever put that genie back in the bottle after this behavior both on Twitter and in Post Status Slack.”\n\n\n\nWordPress developer and contributor Alex Standiford said Mullenweg’s public confrontations yesterday are “a bad look for WordPress, and deflate the passionate contributors who genuinely believe in WordPress.” Despite recent events, he continues to believe in the larger impact of people building open source software together.\n\n\n\n“I believe that WordPress isn’t software,” Standiford wrote on his blog. “It’s not community. It’s not a single person, no matter how significant that person thinks they are. I believe that WordPress is the manifestation of a belief that the web is at its best when it’s open. If I genuinely believed that forking WordPress would be good for WordPress, and the web, I’d contribute to it over the existing platform in a heartbeat.”", "date_published": "2023-09-15T17:34:22-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-16T11:58:49-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/broken-egg.jpeg", "tags": [ "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148773", "url": "https://wptavern.com/woosesh-2023-publishes-speaker-lineup-launches-seshies-awards", "title": "WooSesh 2023 Publishes Speaker Lineup, Launches Seshies Awards", "content_html": "\n

WooSesh 2023, the virtual conference for WooCommerce store builders, will be broadcast live on October 10-12. This year’s theme is “Next Generation Commerce.” Registration is not yet open, but the speaker lineup and broadcast schedule have just been published. Over the course of three days, WooSesh will feature 31 speakers across 23 sessions.

\n\n\n\n

The event will kick off with the State of the Woo address, delivered by WooCommerce CEO Paul Maiorana and other product leaders from the company. Speakers will cover a wide range of topics like complexities of sales tax and product taxability, accessibility, block themes, security, AI tools, and automation, with case studies and workshops mixed in.

\n\n\n\n

New in 2023: The Seshies

\n\n\n\n

WooSesh organizer Brian Richards is launching “The Seshies” this year, a community awards ceremony that will recognize the best examples of the WooCommerce ecosystem across six categories: Innovation, Store, Extension, Agency, Developer, and Community Advocate.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n


The Seshies will include a community awards ceremony that will celebrate the winners. Anyone can nominate candidates for the awards, and participants can even nominate themselves and their own WooCommerce projects.

\n\n\n\n

“These awards are something that have been on my heart for quite some time,” Richards said. “And now, after 6 years of hosting WooSesh and 10 years of running WPSessions, I think I’ve amassed enough authority and (critically) a wide enough reach to deliver awards, on your behalf, that have real meaning.”

\n\n\n\n

The week before the event, Richards plans to publish the top three nominees in each category. The community will vote throughout the first two days of WooSesh and the winners will be announced on the final day. Winners will receive a digital badge of recognition and Richards said he is also working on producing physical awards to ship to winners anywhere in the world.

\n", "content_text": "WooSesh 2023, the virtual conference for WooCommerce store builders, will be broadcast live on October 10-12. This year’s theme is “Next Generation Commerce.” Registration is not yet open, but the speaker lineup and broadcast schedule have just been published. Over the course of three days, WooSesh will feature 31 speakers across 23 sessions.\n\n\n\nThe event will kick off with the State of the Woo address, delivered by WooCommerce CEO Paul Maiorana and other product leaders from the company. Speakers will cover a wide range of topics like complexities of sales tax and product taxability, accessibility, block themes, security, AI tools, and automation, with case studies and workshops mixed in.\n\n\n\nNew in 2023: The Seshies\n\n\n\nWooSesh organizer Brian Richards is launching “The Seshies” this year, a community awards ceremony that will recognize the best examples of the WooCommerce ecosystem across six categories: Innovation, Store, Extension, Agency, Developer, and Community Advocate.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe Seshies will include a community awards ceremony that will celebrate the winners. Anyone can nominate candidates for the awards, and participants can even nominate themselves and their own WooCommerce projects. \n\n\n\n“These awards are something that have been on my heart for quite some time,” Richards said. “And now, after 6 years of hosting WooSesh and 10 years of running WPSessions, I think I’ve amassed enough authority and (critically) a wide enough reach to deliver awards, on your behalf, that have real meaning.”\n\n\n\nThe week before the event, Richards plans to publish the top three nominees in each category. The community will vote throughout the first two days of WooSesh and the winners will be announced on the final day. Winners will receive a digital badge of recognition and Richards said he is also working on producing physical awards to ship to winners anywhere in the world.", "date_published": "2023-09-14T23:34:32-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-14T23:34:34-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screen-Shot-2023-09-14-at-11.25.03-PM.png", "tags": [ "woocommerce", "woosesh", "E-Commerce", "Events", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148817", "url": "https://wptavern.com/activitypub-1-0-0-released-introducing-blog-wide-accounts-and-new-blocks", "title": "ActivityPub 1.0.0 Released, Introducing Blog-Wide Accounts and New Blocks", "content_html": "\n

Version 1.0.0 of the ActivityPub plugin was released this week with major updates that make it possible to have a blog-wide account, instead of just individual author accounts, where followers receive updates from all authors. This new feature allows people to follow blogs on decentralized platforms like Mastodon (and many others) with replies automatically published back to the blog as comments.

\n\n\n\n

In the ActivityPub plugin settings, users can check “Enable blog” to have the blog become an ActivityPub profile. Authors can be enabled at the same time as a blog-wide profile.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

Activities originating from a Blog profile can be further customized through the existing post content and image settings. Users can also set the activity object type to default, article, or WordPress post format which maps the post format to the ActivityPub object type. Supported post types include posts, pages, and media. Note that the blog-wide profile only works with sites that have rewrite rules enabled.

\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

An experimental hashtags setting is also available, which adds hashtags in the content as native tags and replaces the #tag with the tag link. Users should be aware that it may still produce HTML or CSS errors.

\n\n\n\n

ActivityPub 1.0.0 introduces two new blocks – one for displaying Fediverse Followers and the other for displaying a “Follow” button to allow people to follow the blog or author on the Fediverse. The Follower system has also gotten a complete rewrite based on Custom Post Types.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
\n\n\n\n

Other notable updates in this release include the following:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Automattic acquired the plugin in March 2023 from German developer\u00a0Matthias Pfefferle, who joined the company to continue improving support for federated platforms. Next on the roadmap for the ActivityPub plugin is threaded comments support and replacing shortcodes with blocks for layout.

\n", "content_text": "Version 1.0.0 of the ActivityPub plugin was released this week with major updates that make it possible to have a blog-wide account, instead of just individual author accounts, where followers receive updates from all authors. This new feature allows people to follow blogs on decentralized platforms like Mastodon (and many others) with replies automatically published back to the blog as comments. \n\n\n\nIn the ActivityPub plugin settings, users can check “Enable blog” to have the blog become an ActivityPub profile. Authors can be enabled at the same time as a blog-wide profile.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nActivities originating from a Blog profile can be further customized through the existing post content and image settings. Users can also set the activity object type to default, article, or WordPress post format which maps the post format to the ActivityPub object type. Supported post types include posts, pages, and media. Note that the blog-wide profile only works with sites that have rewrite rules enabled. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAn experimental hashtags setting is also available, which adds hashtags in the content as native tags and replaces the #tag with the tag link. Users should be aware that it may still produce HTML or CSS errors.\n\n\n\nActivityPub 1.0.0 introduces two new blocks – one for displaying Fediverse Followers and the other for displaying a “Follow” button to allow people to follow the blog or author on the Fediverse. The Follower system has also gotten a complete rewrite based on Custom Post Types.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOther notable updates in this release include the following: \n\n\n\n\nSignature Verification: https://docs.joinmastodon.org/spec/security/\n\n\n\nSimple caching\n\n\n\nCollection endpoints for Featured Tags and Featured Posts\n\n\n\nBetter handling of Hashtags in mobile apps\n\n\n\nUpdate: Improved linter (PHPCS)\n\n\n\nFixed: Load the plugin later in the WordPress code lifecycle to avoid errors in some requests\n\n\n\nFixed: Updating posts\n\n\n\nFixed: Hashtag now support CamelCase and UTF-8\n\n\n\n\nAutomattic acquired the plugin in March 2023 from German developer\u00a0Matthias Pfefferle, who joined the company to continue improving support for federated platforms. Next on the roadmap for the ActivityPub plugin is threaded comments support and replacing shortcodes with blocks for layout.", "date_published": "2023-09-14T18:43:20-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-14T18:43:22-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Screen-Shot-2023-03-13-at-2.08.21-PM.png", "tags": [ "activitypub", "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148759", "url": "https://wptavern.com/developers-raise-concerns-about-wordpress-com-plugin-listings-outranking-wordpress-org-on-google", "title": "Developers Raise Concerns About WordPress.com Plugin Listings Outranking WordPress.org on Google Search", "content_html": "\n

WordPress core developer John Blackbourn sparked a heated discussion yesterday when he posted an image of his WordPress User Switching plugin ranking higher for the WordPress.com listing than the page on WordPress.org.

\n\n\n\n
\n

Why has @wordpressdotcom replicated the entire https://t.co/oTA9NDVkFk plugin directory on its .com domain name? Searching for some plugin names now results in the .com page ranking higher than .org. Fuck the long term health of the FOSS project, let's make some money, right? pic.twitter.com/UD40BN3Z6g

— John Blackbourn (@johnbillion) September 13, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Blackbourn later apologized for the inflammatory wording of the original post, but maintains that .com plugin listings being displayed higher in search results is not healthy for the open source project.

\n\n\n\n

“This was a frustrated 2AM tweet so I could have worded it better, but the point still stands,” he said. “The plugin pages on dotcom are little more than marketing landing pages for the dotcom service and they’re strongly competing with the canonical dotorg pages. That’s not healthy.”

\n\n\n\n

Several others commented about having similar experiences when searching for plugins, finding that the WordPress.com often ranks higher, although many others still see WordPress.org pages ranked highest.

\n\n\n\n

Blackbourn said his chief concern “is the process that introduced the directory clone on .com either disregarded its potential impact on .org in favor of inbounds or never considered it in the first place – both very concerning given the ranking power of .com.”

\n\n\n\n

The tweet highlighted the frustration some members of the open source community feel due to the perennial branding confusion between WordPress.com and WordPress.org. Nothing short of renaming WordPress.com will eliminate the longstanding confusion, but this is unlikely as Automattic benefits from tightly coupling its products to WordPress\u2019 name recognition.

\n\n\n\n

“Duplicate content confuses the human + search engines,” SEO consultant Rebecca Gill said. “Search engines won’t like it, nor will humans trying to find solutions to their problems. There is already enough confusion w/ .org + .com for non-tech folks. This amplifies it. Noindex .com content or canonical it to .org.”

\n\n\n\n

Participants in the discussion maintain that the duplication of the open source project’s plugin directory “creates ambiguity and confusion” but WordPress co-creator and Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg contends it also gives plugin authors greater distribution.

\n\n\n\n

“It’s providing distribution to the plugin authors, literally millions and millions of installs,” Mullenweg said. He elaborated on how the cloned plugin directory is integrated with Calypso, WordPress.com’s admin interface:

\n\n\n\n
\n

.com has its own plugin directory which includes the .org one, it provides more installs and distribution to the plugin authors, which helps their usage and for commercial ones gets them more sales. The plugins are not altered. .com takes no cut for the distribution.

\n
\n\n\n\n

When participants in the discussion suggested that other hosts doing the same thing would create a wild west situation for plugin rankings, Mullenweg said he would not mind if the plugins were “duplicated and distributed by every host and site on the planet,” as they are all licensed under the GPL.

\n\n\n\n
\n

If people are providing more distribution to unaltered plugins, I think that's great. Happy for all our plugins to be duplicated and distributed by every host and site on the planet.

— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 13, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Outrage against distributing WordPress.org plugins in this fashion was not universal in the discussion. A few commenters support this strategy and see it as beneficial for the long-term health of the open source project.

\n\n\n\n

“I’m all for it to be honest,” WordPress developer Cristian Raiber said. “Anyone could scrape those pages but not everyone gives back to WordPress and makes sure it’s here to stay for the next decades. Controversial, I know. But I prefer we build together instead of alone.

\n\n\n\n

“I fail to see how this is not an advantage to anyone who hosts their plugins (for FREE) on w[dot]org ?” Raiber continued in a separate response. “Is it about being outranked in Google’s SERPs for brand kws? Why has this generated so much outcry when the intent is clearly beneficial?

\n\n\n\n

“This FINALLY solves a friction point for potential buyers. Streamlined plugin installation and usage vs ‘here’s a list of 55 steps you have to take to install my plugin.’ Users want options, different uses cases and all. I want wp.com to make money so they keep growing this product.”

\n\n\n\n

XWP\u00a0Director of Engineering\u00a0Francesca Marano suggested that WordPress.com has benefitted from the branding and reputation of .org, which is built by volunteers. She also proposed that Automattic “has the resources to do a whole rebranding which would ultimately benefit both projects.”

\n\n\n\n

Mullenweg responded to these comments, defending WordPress.com’s efforts in fending off early WordPress competitors and cited Automattic’s preeminence in contributing back to core, despite taking in less revenue than some larger companies making money from the software:

\n\n\n\n
\n

Since its foundation, .org has benefitted from the branding and reputation of having a robust SaaS version available from .com, including a free version, something basically no other host does. Over 200M people have used it, and countless started on .com and then migrated to another host. The shared branding made it very difficult for services like Typepad to compete. You want to see what WP would look like without it? Go to Joomla.

\n\n\n\n

.com has also been the source of countless performance improvements, we deploy pre-release versions of core to millions of sites to find bugs and do testing, making WP releases way more stable for regular users and hosts. No company contributes more, even though many make more from WP than .com’s revenue. It would have been way easier to fork the software, not merge MU. Most hosts (and many community members) bad-mouth .com while not contributing a fraction back to core. Hosts spend tens of millions a year on ads against .com. I get attacked constantly.

\n
\n\n\n\n

In 2010, when the WordPress Foundation was created, Automattic transferred the WordPress trademarks to the Foundation, after having been the temporary custodian of the trademarks until that time. As part of the transfer, the Foundation granted Mullenweg use of the WordPress trademark for WordPress.com.

\n\n\n\n

This trademark was deliberately secured, and the company does not appear to be open to renaming the platform. This doesn’t mean WordPress.com can’t do anything to mitigate the confusion that scraping the WordPress.org plugin directory creates. Participants in the discussion suggested that WordPress.com forego indexing the pages they created for plugins that developers submitted to the open source project.

\n\n\n\n

“You can control SEO by telling search engines to not index those pages of open source software developed for .org on the .com domain,” WordPress plugin developer Marco Almeida said.

\n\n\n\n

“I have 20 free plugins on the repository and I don’t see how my plugins will benefit if we open this pandora box and normalize cloning these pages and diluting the WordPress.org importance on search engines.”

\n\n\n\n
\n

Dotcom can help by using schema markup that points to dotorg as the authority (using the "about" and/or "sameAs" properties). The dotorg pages already have the schema markup in place, you'll just need to point to it from dotcom.

This is helpful for dotcom too. Although Google\u2026

— Jeff Matson \"\ud83d\udc7e\" (@TheJeffMatson) September 13, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Developers who are just now discovering their WordPress.org plugins cloned to WordPress.com listings are also wanting to know how many of their installs come from WordPress.com so they can better understand their user bases. Mullenweg suggested developers who want a different listing for WordPress.com users can sign up for the .com marketplace.

\n\n\n\n
\n

well, this could be true, but as plugin author I don\u2019t know how many installations are on .com or .org, or how to show the plugin description/features in a different way to a .com user. I think that the main issue here is the directory cloning

— Simone Maranzana (@simo_m) September 13, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

Tensions remained high as the heated discussion continued throughout the day and into the evening with criticism flowing across X (Twitter), Post Status Slack, and other social channels, as many developers learned for the first time that their plugin listings have been cloned on WordPress.com. As long as a commercial entity shares the open source project’s branding, these types of clashes and friction will continue popping up.

\n\n\n\n

“Personally, I can\u2019t help but empathize with plugin authors that chose to support OSS and find the directory cloned in a commercial service, albeit free, with no access to stats,” Francesca Marano said. “As I mentioned before, the main issue is the confusion around the two projects.”

\n", "content_text": "WordPress core developer John Blackbourn sparked a heated discussion yesterday when he posted an image of his WordPress User Switching plugin ranking higher for the WordPress.com listing than the page on WordPress.org.\n\n\n\n\nWhy has @wordpressdotcom replicated the entire https://t.co/oTA9NDVkFk plugin directory on its .com domain name? Searching for some plugin names now results in the .com page ranking higher than .org. Fuck the long term health of the FOSS project, let's make some money, right? pic.twitter.com/UD40BN3Z6g— John Blackbourn (@johnbillion) September 13, 2023\n\n\n\n\nBlackbourn later apologized for the inflammatory wording of the original post, but maintains that .com plugin listings being displayed higher in search results is not healthy for the open source project.\n\n\n\n“This was a frustrated 2AM tweet so I could have worded it better, but the point still stands,” he said. “The plugin pages on dotcom are little more than marketing landing pages for the dotcom service and they’re strongly competing with the canonical dotorg pages. That’s not healthy.”\n\n\n\nSeveral others commented about having similar experiences when searching for plugins, finding that the WordPress.com often ranks higher, although many others still see WordPress.org pages ranked highest. \n\n\n\nBlackbourn said his chief concern “is the process that introduced the directory clone on .com either disregarded its potential impact on .org in favor of inbounds or never considered it in the first place – both very concerning given the ranking power of .com.”\n\n\n\nThe tweet highlighted the frustration some members of the open source community feel due to the perennial branding confusion between WordPress.com and WordPress.org. Nothing short of renaming WordPress.com will eliminate the longstanding confusion, but this is unlikely as Automattic benefits from tightly coupling its products to WordPress\u2019 name recognition.\n\n\n\n“Duplicate content confuses the human + search engines,” SEO consultant Rebecca Gill said. “Search engines won’t like it, nor will humans trying to find solutions to their problems. There is already enough confusion w/ .org + .com for non-tech folks. This amplifies it. Noindex .com content or canonical it to .org.”\n\n\n\nParticipants in the discussion maintain that the duplication of the open source project’s plugin directory “creates ambiguity and confusion” but WordPress co-creator and Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg contends it also gives plugin authors greater distribution.\n\n\n\n“It’s providing distribution to the plugin authors, literally millions and millions of installs,” Mullenweg said. He elaborated on how the cloned plugin directory is integrated with Calypso, WordPress.com’s admin interface:\n\n\n\n\n.com has its own plugin directory which includes the .org one, it provides more installs and distribution to the plugin authors, which helps their usage and for commercial ones gets them more sales. The plugins are not altered. .com takes no cut for the distribution.\n\n\n\n\nWhen participants in the discussion suggested that other hosts doing the same thing would create a wild west situation for plugin rankings, Mullenweg said he would not mind if the plugins were “duplicated and distributed by every host and site on the planet,” as they are all licensed under the GPL.\n\n\n\n\nIf people are providing more distribution to unaltered plugins, I think that's great. Happy for all our plugins to be duplicated and distributed by every host and site on the planet.— Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) September 13, 2023\n\n\n\n\nOutrage against distributing WordPress.org plugins in this fashion was not universal in the discussion. A few commenters support this strategy and see it as beneficial for the long-term health of the open source project.\n\n\n\n“I’m all for it to be honest,” WordPress developer Cristian Raiber said. “Anyone could scrape those pages but not everyone gives back to WordPress and makes sure it’s here to stay for the next decades. Controversial, I know. But I prefer we build together instead of alone.\n\n\n\n“I fail to see how this is not an advantage to anyone who hosts their plugins (for FREE) on w[dot]org ?” Raiber continued in a separate response. “Is it about being outranked in Google’s SERPs for brand kws? Why has this generated so much outcry when the intent is clearly beneficial?\n\n\n\n“This FINALLY solves a friction point for potential buyers. Streamlined plugin installation and usage vs ‘here’s a list of 55 steps you have to take to install my plugin.’ Users want options, different uses cases and all. I want wp.com to make money so they keep growing this product.”\n\n\n\nXWP\u00a0Director of Engineering\u00a0Francesca Marano suggested that WordPress.com has benefitted from the branding and reputation of .org, which is built by volunteers. She also proposed that Automattic “has the resources to do a whole rebranding which would ultimately benefit both projects.”\n\n\n\nMullenweg responded to these comments, defending WordPress.com’s efforts in fending off early WordPress competitors and cited Automattic’s preeminence in contributing back to core, despite taking in less revenue than some larger companies making money from the software:\n\n\n\n\nSince its foundation, .org has benefitted from the branding and reputation of having a robust SaaS version available from .com, including a free version, something basically no other host does. Over 200M people have used it, and countless started on .com and then migrated to another host. The shared branding made it very difficult for services like Typepad to compete. You want to see what WP would look like without it? Go to Joomla. \n\n\n\n.com has also been the source of countless performance improvements, we deploy pre-release versions of core to millions of sites to find bugs and do testing, making WP releases way more stable for regular users and hosts. No company contributes more, even though many make more from WP than .com’s revenue. It would have been way easier to fork the software, not merge MU. Most hosts (and many community members) bad-mouth .com while not contributing a fraction back to core. Hosts spend tens of millions a year on ads against .com. I get attacked constantly.\n\n\n\n\nIn 2010, when the WordPress Foundation was created, Automattic transferred the WordPress trademarks to the Foundation, after having been the temporary custodian of the trademarks until that time. As part of the transfer, the Foundation granted Mullenweg use of the WordPress trademark for WordPress.com.\n\n\n\nThis trademark was deliberately secured, and the company does not appear to be open to renaming the platform. This doesn’t mean WordPress.com can’t do anything to mitigate the confusion that scraping the WordPress.org plugin directory creates. Participants in the discussion suggested that WordPress.com forego indexing the pages they created for plugins that developers submitted to the open source project.\n\n\n\n“You can control SEO by telling search engines to not index those pages of open source software developed for .org on the .com domain,” WordPress plugin developer Marco Almeida said.\n\n\n\n“I have 20 free plugins on the repository and I don’t see how my plugins will benefit if we open this pandora box and normalize cloning these pages and diluting the WordPress.org importance on search engines.”\n\n\n\n\nDotcom can help by using schema markup that points to dotorg as the authority (using the "about" and/or "sameAs" properties). The dotorg pages already have the schema markup in place, you'll just need to point to it from dotcom.This is helpful for dotcom too. Although Google\u2026— Jeff Matson (@TheJeffMatson) September 13, 2023\n\n\n\n\nDevelopers who are just now discovering their WordPress.org plugins cloned to WordPress.com listings are also wanting to know how many of their installs come from WordPress.com so they can better understand their user bases. Mullenweg suggested developers who want a different listing for WordPress.com users can sign up for the .com marketplace.\n\n\n\n\nwell, this could be true, but as plugin author I don\u2019t know how many installations are on .com or .org, or how to show the plugin description/features in a different way to a .com user. I think that the main issue here is the directory cloning— Simone Maranzana (@simo_m) September 13, 2023\n\n\n\n\nTensions remained high as the heated discussion continued throughout the day and into the evening with criticism flowing across X (Twitter), Post Status Slack, and other social channels, as many developers learned for the first time that their plugin listings have been cloned on WordPress.com. As long as a commercial entity shares the open source project’s branding, these types of clashes and friction will continue popping up.\n\n\n\n“Personally, I can\u2019t help but empathize with plugin authors that chose to support OSS and find the directory cloned in a commercial service, albeit free, with no access to stats,” Francesca Marano said. “As I mentioned before, the main issue is the confusion around the two projects.”", "date_published": "2023-09-14T00:05:39-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-14T08:00:47-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/plugin.jpg", "tags": [ "wordpress.com", "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=148683", "url": "https://wptavern.com/podcast/90-olga-gleckler-on-how-anyone-can-contribute-to-the-wordpress-project", "title": "#90 \u2013 Olga Gleckler on How Anyone Can Contribute to the WordPress Project", "content_html": "\n
Transcript
\n

[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

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Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how you can assist the WordPress project by contributing.

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If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

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If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.

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So on the podcast today we have Olga Gleckler. Olga is a self-taught developer with many years of experience. After initially pursuing a career in marketing, she turned back to her passion for programming and became a full-time developer. She has been contributing to WordPress for four years, and is currently serving as the Core triaged lead for version 6.4.

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In addition, Olga is a maintainer for two components in Core, and actively participates in various teams within the WordPress community.

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Outside of work, she’s also writing a fantasy book, which has a significant personal project for her.

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Olga has tried her hand in various teams within the WordPress community, ranging from Polyglots to Training, Support and more. She challenges the commonly held misconception that only coders can contribute to the WordPress project, highlighting the many different ways individuals can contribute without coding skills.

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During our conversation, Olga shares some examples of non-coding contributions that can be made to the WordPress project. We talk about the process of submitting patches and contributions to WordPress, discussing the schedule for releases, and the importance of understanding the processes and deadlines.

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Olga also emphasizes the essential steps of testing, reviewing for coding standards and ensuring correct documentation in order to make impactful contributions.

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Olga’s journey and the WordPress community has been very varied. She discusses how being part of this ecosystem has improved her career prospects, and gained her trust from others. However she acknowledges that not everyone finds their place immediately and may struggle to get started.

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She explores how to contribute without becoming discouraged, and shares her experiences in the mentorship program that paired mentors with mentees in navigating the WordPress community.

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Throughout the conversation Olga shows a deep passion for the WordPress project and the collaborative nature of the community. She reminds us that contributing to open source projects requires patience and persistence and shares her insights on learning methods, seeking guidance and asking questions in order to make progress.

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If you’ve thought about contributing to WordPress, but are not sure where to begin, this episode is for you. If you’re interested

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in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

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And so without further delay, I bring you Olga Gleckler.

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I am joined on the podcast today by Olga Gleckler. Hello, Olga!

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[00:04:08] Olga Gleckler: Hi.

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[00:04:09] Nathan Wrigley: Very nice to have you with us. Olga is going to be chatting to us today about contributing to WordPress, probably specifically around WordPress Core, but we will no doubt in the introduction discover that Olga’s done a lot more in the WordPress space.

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Olga, just before we begin, let’s orientate our listeners a little bit about you. This is a chance to give us your biography. Tell us who you are, how long you’ve been working with code and computers and in the WordPress space more specifically. You can go as far back as you like.

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[00:04:43] Olga Gleckler: Sounds great. I wanted to be a programmer at school, but I messed up with my education and turned out to be a marketer. Then I was a bit disappointed in marketing because you cannot promise to deliver something and actually deliver it. And I switched back to my previous passion to development, and become a developer like a self taught.

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And already nine years I’m working full time as a developer. And four years I’m contributing to WordPress. To find the WordPress community, it was a big discovery for me, and actually turning point for the whole experience, because WordPress is good, is great, and I liked it.

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When I discovered the community, I started to love it. And since Berlin in 2019, I joined marketing team and several other teams. I contributed to polyglots team, to training team, to support, I love support. And some other teams. And right now I am Core triage lead for 6.4. I was Core triage co-lead for 6.3 as well.

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I’m a maintainer for two components in Core, so I think I know a bit about how you can actually contribute to Core, and I still enjoying all the process.

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Apart from full time job and contribution, I also want to mention that I’m writing a fantasy book. It’s like a big deal for me. It’s a draft, but it’s another passion I carry on with myself all around the world.

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[00:06:25] Nathan Wrigley: That’s really interesting. So you’ve been involved in all sorts of different sides of WordPress. You mentioned there specifically that you joined the marketing team, obviously based upon your past history with studying marketing and things like that. But you found that that maybe wasn’t the best fit for you. And I guess that’s going to be part of the conversation today, is that there’s a lot of different places that you can contribute. And if you join a team and it doesn’t seem to be the right fit first time, that’s not a reason to give up, because there are just multiple different ways that you can contribute to WordPress, right?

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[00:07:02] Olga Gleckler: I love marketing. I cannot kick it out of me, and I still deeply involved in marketing team activities and most of my efforts I am making are between teams. For example, between marketing and mobile team, between marketing and Core team. It’s something inside me and I cannot kick it out, and I’m looking at Core tickets from the marketing point of view, and trying to find something significant, something to change, something to improve user experience, to deliver improvement and make a difference and impact.

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So, yes. I joined marketing team first and I’m still there, part of the marketing team, but I tried different things like in support, in polyglots. They are all very different and very important as well. So I poke around a lot, and finally I pluck up the courage, with help, and starting to contribute to Core team.

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[00:08:06] Nathan Wrigley: It sounds like on your journey you have dabbled in, you said, poking around, you’ve had a go at various different teams and you’ve obviously enjoyed that. In some of the show notes that you shared with me, you list out some of the different things. So you’ve been involved in several different teams, for example, polyglots, training, and you mentioned support and TV actually, which is kind of an interesting one.

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That gives us an idea of the different things that you can be involved in. There’s a whole range there, but I want to drive this message home. The idea that if you’re in the WordPress community, I think there is a perception that if you don’t code, you’re probably not going to be able to contribute. And I think it’s fair to say that you really don’t believe that. That’s just not true. You don’t have to have any coding skills at all.

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Now, clearly, if you’re tackling contributions where code is required, that’s probably different, but there’s loads of different ways that you can contribute. And I wonder if you wouldn’t mind just telling us about some of those different things. Some of the things that teach us that you don’t need to be a coder to contribute to the project.

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[00:09:17] Olga Gleckler: For example, Community team. Community team is handling all the organization processes for meetups, WordCamps, other events and supporting people. It’s a great and a big job for managers. People who are taking care about things. You don’t need to be a developer at all. You just need to manage things.

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And this is only one team, and we have more than 22 teams. We have security team. It’s a bit obscure because obvious reasons, but you can contribute to all other teams. For example, if you are teacher, you can contribute to training team. If you are purely WordPress user, you can contribute to a lot of teams.

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For example documentation and checking if things are clear, and documentation is actually following the actual result or not, or something needs to be changed.

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And users, just users without any experience in development can bring a huge value because developers are, we have such flaw because everything is working for us. We know how it should go, and it’s going in the right direction. And if you don’t know how it’s supposed to work, you can poke around a bit and discover some flaws, some doubts, some things which are unclear, and bring a huge value for the code itself.

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And apart from it translation. Polyglot team is your goal if you like to translate. And this is the way to improve your own understanding of English and your own language. Because if you are starting to translate, it’s become apparent, obvious that it isn’t easy to do. And you need to put your brain, your heart to this task at hand.

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And support also a good point for people who want to learn. Because if you, for example, can answer like one question from ten, you can make someone else’s day better.

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And in the process, you can learn more and more, and answer more questions, and improve your own skills this way. Just helping other people. And. This is only few teams you can contribute.

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And also TV. You can edit videos for other people. You can translate and make subtitles for these videos. You can of course review them.

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And the team everyone is just love right now is photo team. You can contribute your photos to photo directory and contribute this way. If you are a photographer you can contribute to WordPress your ideas in pictures. And of course, if you like looking at pictures, you can go and review these contributions. Because there are some rules, for example, people not, should not be present on these images, et cetera. So there are some rules about quality, et cetera.

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So we have a lot more abilities. It’s just top of things and we have a lot more.

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[00:12:37] Nathan Wrigley: There are, from everything you’ve just said, so many different avenues that you could go down. And I know, even though you gave us quite a list there, you’ve still probably only scratched the surface, and if you were to get into the weeds of those teams, I’m sure there’d be something for everybody.

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I have a question. It’s a bit of a personal question. And I’m really wondering why you do this. And the reason I’m asking that is because a couple of times in what you just said, you mentioned how it was good for your, your heart. If you like, it made you feel better. But also you said that it was helping other people.

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And so let’s, for example, say that you answer a support ticket, you’ve helped somebody out. You’ve taken them from a place of not knowing, to a place of knowing. So, why do you give up your time? What is it that you get out of it? That may be simply that it makes you feel good, you want the project to be better, so that you can be employed from working with WordPress.

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It may be that you just enjoy it, that you get to meet new people, attend events, go in any direction you like. I’m really curious.

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[00:13:37] Olga Gleckler: I think I love everything. I put my trust in WordPress. This is best choice there is. I believe in it, and of course I’m going to improve, to put back this Five For The Future of myself. To be able to work and use WordPress continuously, and improve it like it’s obvious choice for people who are working on it. And this is only one way.

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The second, I love all this gathering, all these people with passion. Open minded people and everyone is curious and want to learn and want to do something. And everyone is open and this is a safe environment. We’re all following code of conduct. So, it’s completely different space. Open source project. It’s blow minded. I think how it can change your mind and your perspective.

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And of course I got job proposal, previous one, because people know me in the community. And this one is also partly because what I’m doing, because I’m well known, a developer. So I was wondering, where is the technical interview? And I was told that there is no need for you, because we know that you are up to scratch already. So it was a good point.

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So people are amazing. You are improving your skills. You are getting understanding of your level in comparison to other people’s level. You can learn on their efforts and, for example, patches, examples, documentation, etc. So you are continuously improving yourself. A lot of reasons.

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[00:15:26] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, there are a lot of reasons. Really interesting though. There’s obviously a lot of desire from you. You obviously enjoy the whole ecosystem and all of the different tendrils and spokes on the wheel. But also interesting to note that you’ve also done your career prospects no harm by contributing, because you get to the point where you’ve contributed enough that people are going to start looking for you as somebody that they can trust and rely on. So you kind of jumped over the hurdle of job interviews a little bit there as well. So that’s really interesting.

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Okay. Let’s move on to the, another part of the conversation, which is beginning contributing, how you might do that. Because I’m guessing that for some people, it may be that you hit the ground running and you decide, okay, I’d like to be part of the contribution community and you find the right project and you find the right thing to do immediately. But I’m also fairly sure that other people will get discouraged. They’ll perhaps jump in to the wrong part of the project, or maybe tackle something which is a little bit difficult. They can’t find the people to help them and so on. So I wonder if you’ve got any advice about that? Trying to contribute without getting discouraged.

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[00:16:40] Olga Gleckler: Firstly, you need to know what is your learning curve, what is best for you. Sometimes it takes some time to figure it out. For example, some people are purely reading documentation and they are fine with it. But some people need video recording, or they need like a leg up from mentor or just little help for like facilitators.

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And we are trying to provide all this to make it really easy. Right now, there is a barrier, yeah. But if you want to start to contribute to Core, for example, you need to go to new contributor chat. This is like bi-weekly meeting before the main dev chat. And it’s better to ask questions. For example, we are like going through the usual script, we are highlighting several documents and links you’re supposed to browse, but you can be stuck at any moment and actually these meetings are for providing help and we are there.

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I’m mostly present there to help if people are stuck. And you need to understand that asking questions, it’s normal state for everyone. We all are continuously asking questions, and there is no stupid questions, because everyone knows that sometimes it’s hard to begin. Or even you can miss something obvious, even if you are the smartest person in the world, you can miss something obvious, because it’s obvious for someone else.

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So, this is how you can start. But in addition to this, we started a contribute mentorship channel in the Slack. This is dedicated channel for contributor mentorship program. We just finished first pilot program when we took 13 people and they got their own mentors. But everyone else was hanging around, and facilitators like me was providing help for people and answering questions. Specific questions, like how to start, how to pick up ticket, what I should do etc. And if I am like with such background, what is better fit for me, etc.

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But as well, apart from this, you can just poke around and be present in usual developers chats, but it can take time. So to make things quickly, you need some help from people. And we are actually ready for help. And in the documentation, there is a list of people whom you can ask if you have questions and difficulties. I’m listed there as well. So people are actually writing for me in DM if they don’t like comfortable enough to write openly, and asking such questions.

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But if you want your question answered sooner, you can just go to Core channel in the Slack and ask this question openly for everyone to see. And this way you can contribute to other people’s success as well, because some people not ready to answer this, the same question, and they can see your question and pick up what was written to you. But you don’t need to jump in the middle of usual, regular chats. You need to wait until open floor if there is like a dev chat going on. So your question can be like, just be flooded with everything else which is happening. Or this is a release going on, no one will be able to answer your questions properly.

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[00:20:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that’s a good point. Timing is crucial. I’m just going to circle back to the mentorship program because I think that’s really interesting. So this is a new initiative, and it may be of interest to people who perhaps have thought about contributing, but have been a little bit unwilling or discouraged, or they had some bumps in the road and decided not to continue.

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Can you just tell us what that is, how that process works? And I know it’s new and I know you’re trying to figure it all out, but what is it? How does it work? My understanding is that you will be partnered, in certain teams, at least anyway, with people who have done the role that you’re hoping to do and can therefore sort of shepherd you for a period of weeks. Set the expectations for you, give you some advice about where to go for help and all of that kind of stuff. Have I more or less got that right?

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[00:21:17] Olga Gleckler: Yeah, it was a pilot, so we were just trying things. The plan for people was decided, how they can proceed. And we received 50 applications, but was able to take 13 people to partner them with mentors. Mentors were people with wide knowledge inside the community and contribution, but not exactly the match on person’s interests. This person was providing like general support. And actually it’s works great.

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They make contribution plans and providing feedback, what’s working, what is not working. And first two weeks mentees was doing learn courses. And I think 11 of them finished all courses. And then we started sessions, introductory sessions, for many WordPress teams. I had one introduction session for Core. It was also training team, polyglot team, support team, community team, and several other teams.

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So we put a lot of efforts and most of these sessions are recorded, so you can rewatch them. And this was only the first pilot try. So I think the next time we will do better. And we actually scheduled this to be finished next day after release. So our mentees was able to see the whole process of the release alongside with us, and take part in this.

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And several people actually contribute to Core. They made patches, they tested things. From our point of view, it’s a real success and we provided people ability to start quickly, and when there are dedicated people, it’s much easier to ask questions and get answers, and be oriented in this huge area. And because this mentees got an overview of the whole project, like general.

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They was easy to understand what will fit them better. If they like Core, or if they want to translate things, or if they are going to support. Actually, I think one guy answered 200 questions on the support, on the spot, yeah. I have much difference in answering questions. It’s actually takes time, but he went passionate about this, and it’s great.

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[00:23:43] Nathan Wrigley: You mentioned in the shared show notes that we’ve got together for this podcast episode well, I just think this is a lovely phrase, so I’m going to read it out. You wanted to talk about setting the right expectations and understanding of processes, and the fact that these are the key points to, this is the bit that I really like, joyful contribution. So I wonder if you could outline some of those things, some of the wrinkles, some of the expectations that you need to, not only have set for you, but need to set yourself. Because it may be that there are going to be bumps in the road, things that don’t quite work out.

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You may tackle something which ultimately never gets used, or you may think that you’ve created a solution, I’m thinking about coding in Core in this particular case, which then has an impact on something else. And so it needs to be iterated on over and over again. So I guess what we’re trying to say is, it’s not always going to be plain sailing. Not every contribution that you make might be used or suitable. But there are things that you think you can do to make sure that the process is more likely to work in your favour.

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[00:24:46] Olga Gleckler: Yeah, because it’s open source. We have a huge community and we are working together. And if you did something like your part, it’s a bit naive to expect that someone else will pick immediately, like next day. And everything will be done until Friday. It’s not happening. So if you know that things are taking time and can be more complicated than they look like in the first place, you can adjust your expectations and don’t expect your shiny new Core Contributor badge next morning on your profile.

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You will get this badge, but only when you’re patch, or testing involvement, or other contribution will be going to release. So you will get this batch after the release, right after. But still it takes time. So if you are like in a hurry, you need to adjust.

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And of course, sometimes people are creating a patch, like I’ve done everything and it’s not going anywhere. And they are becoming disappointing and interest is going away for contribution. So, what you should do if you did something and no one is paying attention, at least it looks like it. You need to understand that we have more than 8,000 open tickets. So, it’s a huge thing and we are continuously triaging these tickets. This is why we need continuously triage and component maintainers in the first place.

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So if you did something and no one is bothering about it, you should look if this ticket has an owner. Owner is not a person who is doing the patch. This is person who should care, who supposed to care, about this ticket and push it forward. If this ticket has an owner, ping this owner right in the ticket. I did this, please take a look and how we can proceed.

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And this ticket has no owner, you can’t ping component maintainer. Some components don’t have maintainers because we have a lot of components and a bit short in maintainers. What should you do? You can turn up on regular dev chat, wait until open floor, and ask about your ticket and what you want to do about this. There will be a lot of seasoned Core contributors around at this point, and your ticket will be noticed. If it will be like good to go further or you need to rework, it will be seen. But at least you will be starting in the right direction forward. So, you need to be a bit pushy about things to make them happen.

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[00:27:31] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess that’s a really interesting lesson, isn’t it? If you contribute something and it doesn’t either immediately get noticed, or you feel that it’s not being noticed, I think that’s interesting advice. There are different ways that you can make your voice heard, shall we say, and you’ve mentioned some of those there.

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You also wanted to point out that there are roadblocks in the timeline of WordPress, where if you submit, let’s say a patch to something, there are periods in the calendar where things are frozen. And so there are periods, for example, just prior to a release, when we get to release candidate one or beta one, where really, you’re probably best doing something else because there are freezes. You say that the polyglots team needs to be able to translate strings and things like that. So don’t know if you want to talk about that.

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[00:28:19] Olga Gleckler: Yes, sometimes people made something and turn it up, right before the release. And they are disappointed because their patch will not go to this release. Because we have schedule and schedule for the next release, you can easily look on the make wordpress dot org slash core slash 6 hyphen four, for example, right now for this release, and understand the process.

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So if, for example, you are working on enhancement or a feature, they need to be in the trunk before better one. Because it’s like a significant changes, and they need good testing coverage, et cetera. Big things needs to be, go first. If ticket has a keyword early, it should be even before beta one, like right after the previous release. It should be done quickly, because these things can impact a lot.

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And then there’s a release candidate one. If you are working on a bug or if you are anything have content change, it should be in the trunk for release candidate one. Because with release candidate one, we have strings freeze. This is time before release candidate one and actual release for Polyglot’s team to be able to translate this new, or changed strings, to their own languages and make WordPress great in their own language.

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People need time for this, and we have a huge amount of strings. If you will be starting to contribute to Polyglot’s team, you will start to understand that it’s also a big deal and a big job. So if you’re working on something, you need to fit your patch in this right moment and not after.

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And of course, your patch needs to be tested, your patch needs to be reviewed from coding standards, for possible regressions. Possibly you will need to rework some things, or make changes in supporting documentation. For example, each function has this description, yeah, documentation for this function.

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This is why WordPress is so great. It’s clear, good written documentation inside code. So everything should be fine before it will go to trunk, even if the thing is working itself. Sometimes you need to cover this code with unit tests and you need to take into account these things as well. Sometimes, most of the time, people are surprised about unit tests.

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And we have a huge coverage of the code and it’s actually great. It makes things robust. So if you fix some bug, you are covering this part of the code with unit test to be sure that this will not be happening again. And it’s actually great.

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[00:31:09] Nathan Wrigley: There are some places, probably it’s fair to say, which are better places to start. And again, in the show notes that you’ve shared, you’ve alerted me to the fact that it may be that you think something is going to be relatively straightforward. So again, we’re talking about bug fixes here. So we are talking about the code.

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But it may be that you submit something and it turns out to be more difficult. So what you suggest then is that there are some recommendations for where a new contributor might start. So perhaps not the best idea to find the most difficult and challenging thing first time around. And there is some guidance that you can give in terms of where to look and tickets that are marked in a certain way. So yeah, I wonder if you could get into that.

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[00:31:53] Olga Gleckler: Yes, sometimes ticket can be, look very simple, but can turn into a rabbit hole. For example, my best example so far is changing double equal to triple equal. It can bring a lot of regressions, and you will be browsing, trying to fix other things. And most likely this change will not be worth it. And it will be very difficult to convince everyone else that it’s actually worth doing. And, we will not have ten more bugs because of this one.

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So sometimes good new patch, like a feature or enhancement, works better. And robust piece of code, when you have like head or tail, it’s great. And we have tickets which are marked as good first bugs. So if you are browsing tickets in Core track, you can see these tickets by this keyword, by search, custom search. And you can even subscribe to this good first bug hashtag on Twitter and following these tickets.

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For example, if some ticket is not good for you. If you don’t like it or you don’t want to work on UI, for example, or you prefer some other stuff, you can be subscribed to this hashtag, and following along and see what is actually working for you. And start when there will be like right ticket for you.

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But this can be like a bit shock, because a lot of people are subscribed to this good first bugs, they can be taken and already someone else can make a patch. But another thing is that if there is a patch, it does not mean that you cannot contribute because you can review this patch, you can make improvement to this patch.

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You can collaborate with other people on this ticket and make it work, and be great and quick. So, don’t abandon some ticket if there is a patch. Work is not done with the patch, it’s just the beginning.

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[00:34:01] Nathan Wrigley: You also make a recommendation to look out for, I guess, if you’re beginning at least anyway, to look out for tickets where the scope is really clear. And you’ve also got channels for feedback.

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[00:34:13] Olga Gleckler: Yes, definitely. Because sometimes scope isn’t clear and it also can turn rabbit hole. So if you have any doubts about tickets, just any, like a tickling feeling inside your head that something is not actually right, you can turn up into the Core channel on Slack, and ask about this ticket.

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Seasoned contributors will look through and clarify things for you. It’s actually better than put up a lot of work and then turn out that something was wrong in the beginning with the ticket and approach is not working. So don’t waste your time, and be ready to collaborate on the ticket from the beginning with other people. And it’s what actually is working.

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If you are like staying alone and doing something, you can feel lonely and a bit abandoned, and then disappointed. But if you are open to conversation to other people and can receive help, you can provide this help as well. And we are all working on the final result, on WordPress, and it’s great.

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[00:35:23] Nathan Wrigley: I like the way that you’ve rounded off the show notes, because you make the point that whole process of improving WordPress is a continuous learning process. And you may feel that you’ve just provided lots of your time. Maybe your patch wasn’t used, or you ran up against something which you couldn’t work out for yourself, and you needed additional help.

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But you make the point that it’s okay, you know. It wouldn’t be wise to view that as a waste of time because even negative experiences, when you view them from a distance can often be helpful. You may learn something along the way. So negative results, negative experiences may also turn out with time to be positive experiences. And so I guess that’s kind of a nice way to frame it.

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[00:36:05] Olga Gleckler: Yeah, you can like cut out things that are not working and to make clear paths to things which are working. And then the result, everyone’s contributions count. No matter if you make patch and it wasn’t working, and someone else went and improved your patch and make some additional things. And another iteration, another approach discovered some other possibilities. Upon your negative result, they will be going forward.

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[00:36:37] Nathan Wrigley: Just before we round it off, I do wonder what your thoughts are. It’s very clear from everything that you’ve said that you’re very committed, you’re very keen. You love all this stuff. I wonder what the state of contributions is? I’m particularly thinking about things like the pandemic, for example. And whether or not that had an impact in the amount of time that people were able to give.

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My understanding is that contributions may have taken a little bit of a dip. I don’t know where we’re at right now. Obviously the program that you mentioned for mentoring earlier is a great way to encourage people, to get people back in. But I don’t know what the situation is. Are people contributing this year in the same way that they were, let’s say, five years ago? I don’t know if you have any data on that at all.

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[00:37:24] Olga Gleckler: I don’t think any data, but yeah, we had a drop in contribution when pandemic started, because everyone was distressed and we need to take care about our family, our health. So we went through this and not once, but several times having this thing.

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But right now I think we are on the right track. It comes down and we used to new things, and it’s actually turned to be better for everyone. Because, for example, employers understand that people are able to work remotely. And many people right now are working remotely. They got more time. They are saving time on this road to work and back at home.

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So they are keeping this time and they can contribute more easily. I’m an example for this because I’m working remotely all these nine years. This is why I was able to contribute at the beginning, because otherwise I wouldn’t have time. So I think pandemic, it was horrible, yeah, but it’s turned for the better. And right now we can do more. We can contribute more and we can be more flexible in what we are doing.

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[00:38:45] Nathan Wrigley: Olga, I think we’ll wrap it up there. But before we do, obviously, you’re very keen, and if your passion for contributing has rubbed off on somebody else, and perhaps they would like to talk to you before they jump in with both feet. I wonder if you wouldn’t mind telling us a little bit about where we can find you. That might be a website or a Twitter handle, whatever you like.

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[00:39:07] Olga Gleckler: I think best place to find me is on Slack. Why my name? Because there are several channels, I can put people in the right direction straight away. And because I’m almost always there. I just want everyone to join. But, yes, if you have problems with Slack, and it can happen, then you can reach me on Twitter, and I will be able to help you join WordPress org, create an account, etc. But, probably you can try it yourself.

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[00:39:42] Nathan Wrigley: Olga Gleckler, thank you very much for joining us on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.

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On the podcast today we have Olga Gleckler.

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Olga is a self-taught developer with many years experience. After initially pursuing a career in marketing, she turned back to her passion for programming and became a full-time developer. She has been contributing to WordPress for four years and is currently serving as the Core triage lead for version 6.4. In addition, Olga is a maintainer for two components in Core, and actively participates in various teams within the WordPress community. Outside of work, she is also writing a fantasy book, which is a significant personal project for her.

\n\n\n\n

Olga has tried her hand in various teams within the community, ranging from Polyglots to Training, Support, and more. She challenges the commonly held misconception that only coders can contribute to the WordPress project, highlighting the many different ways individuals can contribute without coding skills.

\n\n\n\n

During our conversation, Olga shares some examples of non-coding contributions that can be made to the WordPress project. We talk about the process of submitting patches and contributions to WordPress, discussing the schedule for releases, and the importance of understanding the processes and deadlines.

\n\n\n\n

Olga also emphasises the essential steps of testing, reviewing for coding standards, and ensuring correct documentation in order to make impactful contributions.

\n\n\n\n

Olga’s journey in the WordPress community has been very varied. She discusses how being a part of this ecosystem has improved her career prospects and gained her trust from others. However, she acknowledges that not everyone finds their place immediately, and may struggle to get started. She explores how to contribute without becoming discouraged, and shares her experiences in the mentorship program that paired mentors with mentees in navigating the WordPress community.

\n\n\n\n

Throughout the conversation, Olga shows a deep passion for the WordPress project and the collaborative nature of the community. She reminds us that contributing to open-source projects requires patience and persistence, and shares her insights on learning methods, seeking guidance, and asking questions in order to make progress.

\n\n\n\n

If you\u2019ve thought about contributing to WordPress, but are not sure where to begin, this episode is for you.

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Useful links.

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Contribute Mentorship Program

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Learn WordPress

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WordPress 6.4 Development Cycle

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Polyglots Team

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WordPress Core Trac

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Olga’s Twitter

\n", "content_text": "Transcript\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how you can assist the WordPress project by contributing.\n\n\n\nIf you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today we have Olga Gleckler. Olga is a self-taught developer with many years of experience. After initially pursuing a career in marketing, she turned back to her passion for programming and became a full-time developer. She has been contributing to WordPress for four years, and is currently serving as the Core triaged lead for version 6.4.\n\n\n\nIn addition, Olga is a maintainer for two components in Core, and actively participates in various teams within the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nOutside of work, she’s also writing a fantasy book, which has a significant personal project for her.\n\n\n\nOlga has tried her hand in various teams within the WordPress community, ranging from Polyglots to Training, Support and more. She challenges the commonly held misconception that only coders can contribute to the WordPress project, highlighting the many different ways individuals can contribute without coding skills.\n\n\n\nDuring our conversation, Olga shares some examples of non-coding contributions that can be made to the WordPress project. We talk about the process of submitting patches and contributions to WordPress, discussing the schedule for releases, and the importance of understanding the processes and deadlines.\n\n\n\nOlga also emphasizes the essential steps of testing, reviewing for coding standards and ensuring correct documentation in order to make impactful contributions.\n\n\n\nOlga’s journey and the WordPress community has been very varied. She discusses how being part of this ecosystem has improved her career prospects, and gained her trust from others. However she acknowledges that not everyone finds their place immediately and may struggle to get started.\n\n\n\nShe explores how to contribute without becoming discouraged, and shares her experiences in the mentorship program that paired mentors with mentees in navigating the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nThroughout the conversation Olga shows a deep passion for the WordPress project and the collaborative nature of the community. She reminds us that contributing to open source projects requires patience and persistence and shares her insights on learning methods, seeking guidance and asking questions in order to make progress.\n\n\n\nIf you’ve thought about contributing to WordPress, but are not sure where to begin, this episode is for you. If you’re interested\n\n\n\nin finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Olga Gleckler.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast today by Olga Gleckler. Hello, Olga!\n\n\n\n[00:04:08] Olga Gleckler: Hi.\n\n\n\n[00:04:09] Nathan Wrigley: Very nice to have you with us. Olga is going to be chatting to us today about contributing to WordPress, probably specifically around WordPress Core, but we will no doubt in the introduction discover that Olga’s done a lot more in the WordPress space.\n\n\n\nOlga, just before we begin, let’s orientate our listeners a little bit about you. This is a chance to give us your biography. Tell us who you are, how long you’ve been working with code and computers and in the WordPress space more specifically. You can go as far back as you like.\n\n\n\n[00:04:43] Olga Gleckler: Sounds great. I wanted to be a programmer at school, but I messed up with my education and turned out to be a marketer. Then I was a bit disappointed in marketing because you cannot promise to deliver something and actually deliver it. And I switched back to my previous passion to development, and become a developer like a self taught.\n\n\n\nAnd already nine years I’m working full time as a developer. And four years I’m contributing to WordPress. To find the WordPress community, it was a big discovery for me, and actually turning point for the whole experience, because WordPress is good, is great, and I liked it.\n\n\n\nWhen I discovered the community, I started to love it. And since Berlin in 2019, I joined marketing team and several other teams. I contributed to polyglots team, to training team, to support, I love support. And some other teams. And right now I am Core triage lead for 6.4. I was Core triage co-lead for 6.3 as well.\n\n\n\nI’m a maintainer for two components in Core, so I think I know a bit about how you can actually contribute to Core, and I still enjoying all the process.\n\n\n\nApart from full time job and contribution, I also want to mention that I’m writing a fantasy book. It’s like a big deal for me. It’s a draft, but it’s another passion I carry on with myself all around the world.\n\n\n\n[00:06:25] Nathan Wrigley: That’s really interesting. So you’ve been involved in all sorts of different sides of WordPress. You mentioned there specifically that you joined the marketing team, obviously based upon your past history with studying marketing and things like that. But you found that that maybe wasn’t the best fit for you. And I guess that’s going to be part of the conversation today, is that there’s a lot of different places that you can contribute. And if you join a team and it doesn’t seem to be the right fit first time, that’s not a reason to give up, because there are just multiple different ways that you can contribute to WordPress, right?\n\n\n\n[00:07:02] Olga Gleckler: I love marketing. I cannot kick it out of me, and I still deeply involved in marketing team activities and most of my efforts I am making are between teams. For example, between marketing and mobile team, between marketing and Core team. It’s something inside me and I cannot kick it out, and I’m looking at Core tickets from the marketing point of view, and trying to find something significant, something to change, something to improve user experience, to deliver improvement and make a difference and impact.\n\n\n\nSo, yes. I joined marketing team first and I’m still there, part of the marketing team, but I tried different things like in support, in polyglots. They are all very different and very important as well. So I poke around a lot, and finally I pluck up the courage, with help, and starting to contribute to Core team.\n\n\n\n[00:08:06] Nathan Wrigley: It sounds like on your journey you have dabbled in, you said, poking around, you’ve had a go at various different teams and you’ve obviously enjoyed that. In some of the show notes that you shared with me, you list out some of the different things. So you’ve been involved in several different teams, for example, polyglots, training, and you mentioned support and TV actually, which is kind of an interesting one.\n\n\n\nThat gives us an idea of the different things that you can be involved in. There’s a whole range there, but I want to drive this message home. The idea that if you’re in the WordPress community, I think there is a perception that if you don’t code, you’re probably not going to be able to contribute. And I think it’s fair to say that you really don’t believe that. That’s just not true. You don’t have to have any coding skills at all.\n\n\n\nNow, clearly, if you’re tackling contributions where code is required, that’s probably different, but there’s loads of different ways that you can contribute. And I wonder if you wouldn’t mind just telling us about some of those different things. Some of the things that teach us that you don’t need to be a coder to contribute to the project.\n\n\n\n[00:09:17] Olga Gleckler: For example, Community team. Community team is handling all the organization processes for meetups, WordCamps, other events and supporting people. It’s a great and a big job for managers. People who are taking care about things. You don’t need to be a developer at all. You just need to manage things.\n\n\n\nAnd this is only one team, and we have more than 22 teams. We have security team. It’s a bit obscure because obvious reasons, but you can contribute to all other teams. For example, if you are teacher, you can contribute to training team. If you are purely WordPress user, you can contribute to a lot of teams.\n\n\n\nFor example documentation and checking if things are clear, and documentation is actually following the actual result or not, or something needs to be changed.\n\n\n\nAnd users, just users without any experience in development can bring a huge value because developers are, we have such flaw because everything is working for us. We know how it should go, and it’s going in the right direction. And if you don’t know how it’s supposed to work, you can poke around a bit and discover some flaws, some doubts, some things which are unclear, and bring a huge value for the code itself.\n\n\n\nAnd apart from it translation. Polyglot team is your goal if you like to translate. And this is the way to improve your own understanding of English and your own language. Because if you are starting to translate, it’s become apparent, obvious that it isn’t easy to do. And you need to put your brain, your heart to this task at hand.\n\n\n\nAnd support also a good point for people who want to learn. Because if you, for example, can answer like one question from ten, you can make someone else’s day better.\n\n\n\nAnd in the process, you can learn more and more, and answer more questions, and improve your own skills this way. Just helping other people. And. This is only few teams you can contribute.\n\n\n\nAnd also TV. You can edit videos for other people. You can translate and make subtitles for these videos. You can of course review them.\n\n\n\nAnd the team everyone is just love right now is photo team. You can contribute your photos to photo directory and contribute this way. If you are a photographer you can contribute to WordPress your ideas in pictures. And of course, if you like looking at pictures, you can go and review these contributions. Because there are some rules, for example, people not, should not be present on these images, et cetera. So there are some rules about quality, et cetera.\n\n\n\nSo we have a lot more abilities. It’s just top of things and we have a lot more.\n\n\n\n[00:12:37] Nathan Wrigley: There are, from everything you’ve just said, so many different avenues that you could go down. And I know, even though you gave us quite a list there, you’ve still probably only scratched the surface, and if you were to get into the weeds of those teams, I’m sure there’d be something for everybody.\n\n\n\nI have a question. It’s a bit of a personal question. And I’m really wondering why you do this. And the reason I’m asking that is because a couple of times in what you just said, you mentioned how it was good for your, your heart. If you like, it made you feel better. But also you said that it was helping other people.\n\n\n\nAnd so let’s, for example, say that you answer a support ticket, you’ve helped somebody out. You’ve taken them from a place of not knowing, to a place of knowing. So, why do you give up your time? What is it that you get out of it? That may be simply that it makes you feel good, you want the project to be better, so that you can be employed from working with WordPress.\n\n\n\nIt may be that you just enjoy it, that you get to meet new people, attend events, go in any direction you like. I’m really curious.\n\n\n\n[00:13:37] Olga Gleckler: I think I love everything. I put my trust in WordPress. This is best choice there is. I believe in it, and of course I’m going to improve, to put back this Five For The Future of myself. To be able to work and use WordPress continuously, and improve it like it’s obvious choice for people who are working on it. And this is only one way.\n\n\n\nThe second, I love all this gathering, all these people with passion. Open minded people and everyone is curious and want to learn and want to do something. And everyone is open and this is a safe environment. We’re all following code of conduct. So, it’s completely different space. Open source project. It’s blow minded. I think how it can change your mind and your perspective.\n\n\n\nAnd of course I got job proposal, previous one, because people know me in the community. And this one is also partly because what I’m doing, because I’m well known, a developer. So I was wondering, where is the technical interview? And I was told that there is no need for you, because we know that you are up to scratch already. So it was a good point.\n\n\n\nSo people are amazing. You are improving your skills. You are getting understanding of your level in comparison to other people’s level. You can learn on their efforts and, for example, patches, examples, documentation, etc. So you are continuously improving yourself. A lot of reasons.\n\n\n\n[00:15:26] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, there are a lot of reasons. Really interesting though. There’s obviously a lot of desire from you. You obviously enjoy the whole ecosystem and all of the different tendrils and spokes on the wheel. But also interesting to note that you’ve also done your career prospects no harm by contributing, because you get to the point where you’ve contributed enough that people are going to start looking for you as somebody that they can trust and rely on. So you kind of jumped over the hurdle of job interviews a little bit there as well. So that’s really interesting.\n\n\n\nOkay. Let’s move on to the, another part of the conversation, which is beginning contributing, how you might do that. Because I’m guessing that for some people, it may be that you hit the ground running and you decide, okay, I’d like to be part of the contribution community and you find the right project and you find the right thing to do immediately. But I’m also fairly sure that other people will get discouraged. They’ll perhaps jump in to the wrong part of the project, or maybe tackle something which is a little bit difficult. They can’t find the people to help them and so on. So I wonder if you’ve got any advice about that? Trying to contribute without getting discouraged.\n\n\n\n[00:16:40] Olga Gleckler: Firstly, you need to know what is your learning curve, what is best for you. Sometimes it takes some time to figure it out. For example, some people are purely reading documentation and they are fine with it. But some people need video recording, or they need like a leg up from mentor or just little help for like facilitators.\n\n\n\nAnd we are trying to provide all this to make it really easy. Right now, there is a barrier, yeah. But if you want to start to contribute to Core, for example, you need to go to new contributor chat. This is like bi-weekly meeting before the main dev chat. And it’s better to ask questions. For example, we are like going through the usual script, we are highlighting several documents and links you’re supposed to browse, but you can be stuck at any moment and actually these meetings are for providing help and we are there.\n\n\n\nI’m mostly present there to help if people are stuck. And you need to understand that asking questions, it’s normal state for everyone. We all are continuously asking questions, and there is no stupid questions, because everyone knows that sometimes it’s hard to begin. Or even you can miss something obvious, even if you are the smartest person in the world, you can miss something obvious, because it’s obvious for someone else.\n\n\n\nSo, this is how you can start. But in addition to this, we started a contribute mentorship channel in the Slack. This is dedicated channel for contributor mentorship program. We just finished first pilot program when we took 13 people and they got their own mentors. But everyone else was hanging around, and facilitators like me was providing help for people and answering questions. Specific questions, like how to start, how to pick up ticket, what I should do etc. And if I am like with such background, what is better fit for me, etc.\n\n\n\nBut as well, apart from this, you can just poke around and be present in usual developers chats, but it can take time. So to make things quickly, you need some help from people. And we are actually ready for help. And in the documentation, there is a list of people whom you can ask if you have questions and difficulties. I’m listed there as well. So people are actually writing for me in DM if they don’t like comfortable enough to write openly, and asking such questions.\n\n\n\nBut if you want your question answered sooner, you can just go to Core channel in the Slack and ask this question openly for everyone to see. And this way you can contribute to other people’s success as well, because some people not ready to answer this, the same question, and they can see your question and pick up what was written to you. But you don’t need to jump in the middle of usual, regular chats. You need to wait until open floor if there is like a dev chat going on. So your question can be like, just be flooded with everything else which is happening. Or this is a release going on, no one will be able to answer your questions properly.\n\n\n\n[00:20:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that’s a good point. Timing is crucial. I’m just going to circle back to the mentorship program because I think that’s really interesting. So this is a new initiative, and it may be of interest to people who perhaps have thought about contributing, but have been a little bit unwilling or discouraged, or they had some bumps in the road and decided not to continue.\n\n\n\nCan you just tell us what that is, how that process works? And I know it’s new and I know you’re trying to figure it all out, but what is it? How does it work? My understanding is that you will be partnered, in certain teams, at least anyway, with people who have done the role that you’re hoping to do and can therefore sort of shepherd you for a period of weeks. Set the expectations for you, give you some advice about where to go for help and all of that kind of stuff. Have I more or less got that right?\n\n\n\n[00:21:17] Olga Gleckler: Yeah, it was a pilot, so we were just trying things. The plan for people was decided, how they can proceed. And we received 50 applications, but was able to take 13 people to partner them with mentors. Mentors were people with wide knowledge inside the community and contribution, but not exactly the match on person’s interests. This person was providing like general support. And actually it’s works great.\n\n\n\nThey make contribution plans and providing feedback, what’s working, what is not working. And first two weeks mentees was doing learn courses. And I think 11 of them finished all courses. And then we started sessions, introductory sessions, for many WordPress teams. I had one introduction session for Core. It was also training team, polyglot team, support team, community team, and several other teams.\n\n\n\nSo we put a lot of efforts and most of these sessions are recorded, so you can rewatch them. And this was only the first pilot try. So I think the next time we will do better. And we actually scheduled this to be finished next day after release. So our mentees was able to see the whole process of the release alongside with us, and take part in this.\n\n\n\nAnd several people actually contribute to Core. They made patches, they tested things. From our point of view, it’s a real success and we provided people ability to start quickly, and when there are dedicated people, it’s much easier to ask questions and get answers, and be oriented in this huge area. And because this mentees got an overview of the whole project, like general.\n\n\n\nThey was easy to understand what will fit them better. If they like Core, or if they want to translate things, or if they are going to support. Actually, I think one guy answered 200 questions on the support, on the spot, yeah. I have much difference in answering questions. It’s actually takes time, but he went passionate about this, and it’s great.\n\n\n\n[00:23:43] Nathan Wrigley: You mentioned in the shared show notes that we’ve got together for this podcast episode well, I just think this is a lovely phrase, so I’m going to read it out. You wanted to talk about setting the right expectations and understanding of processes, and the fact that these are the key points to, this is the bit that I really like, joyful contribution. So I wonder if you could outline some of those things, some of the wrinkles, some of the expectations that you need to, not only have set for you, but need to set yourself. Because it may be that there are going to be bumps in the road, things that don’t quite work out.\n\n\n\nYou may tackle something which ultimately never gets used, or you may think that you’ve created a solution, I’m thinking about coding in Core in this particular case, which then has an impact on something else. And so it needs to be iterated on over and over again. So I guess what we’re trying to say is, it’s not always going to be plain sailing. Not every contribution that you make might be used or suitable. But there are things that you think you can do to make sure that the process is more likely to work in your favour.\n\n\n\n[00:24:46] Olga Gleckler: Yeah, because it’s open source. We have a huge community and we are working together. And if you did something like your part, it’s a bit naive to expect that someone else will pick immediately, like next day. And everything will be done until Friday. It’s not happening. So if you know that things are taking time and can be more complicated than they look like in the first place, you can adjust your expectations and don’t expect your shiny new Core Contributor badge next morning on your profile.\n\n\n\nYou will get this badge, but only when you’re patch, or testing involvement, or other contribution will be going to release. So you will get this batch after the release, right after. But still it takes time. So if you are like in a hurry, you need to adjust.\n\n\n\nAnd of course, sometimes people are creating a patch, like I’ve done everything and it’s not going anywhere. And they are becoming disappointing and interest is going away for contribution. So, what you should do if you did something and no one is paying attention, at least it looks like it. You need to understand that we have more than 8,000 open tickets. So, it’s a huge thing and we are continuously triaging these tickets. This is why we need continuously triage and component maintainers in the first place.\n\n\n\nSo if you did something and no one is bothering about it, you should look if this ticket has an owner. Owner is not a person who is doing the patch. This is person who should care, who supposed to care, about this ticket and push it forward. If this ticket has an owner, ping this owner right in the ticket. I did this, please take a look and how we can proceed.\n\n\n\nAnd this ticket has no owner, you can’t ping component maintainer. Some components don’t have maintainers because we have a lot of components and a bit short in maintainers. What should you do? You can turn up on regular dev chat, wait until open floor, and ask about your ticket and what you want to do about this. There will be a lot of seasoned Core contributors around at this point, and your ticket will be noticed. If it will be like good to go further or you need to rework, it will be seen. But at least you will be starting in the right direction forward. So, you need to be a bit pushy about things to make them happen.\n\n\n\n[00:27:31] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess that’s a really interesting lesson, isn’t it? If you contribute something and it doesn’t either immediately get noticed, or you feel that it’s not being noticed, I think that’s interesting advice. There are different ways that you can make your voice heard, shall we say, and you’ve mentioned some of those there.\n\n\n\nYou also wanted to point out that there are roadblocks in the timeline of WordPress, where if you submit, let’s say a patch to something, there are periods in the calendar where things are frozen. And so there are periods, for example, just prior to a release, when we get to release candidate one or beta one, where really, you’re probably best doing something else because there are freezes. You say that the polyglots team needs to be able to translate strings and things like that. So don’t know if you want to talk about that.\n\n\n\n[00:28:19] Olga Gleckler: Yes, sometimes people made something and turn it up, right before the release. And they are disappointed because their patch will not go to this release. Because we have schedule and schedule for the next release, you can easily look on the make wordpress dot org slash core slash 6 hyphen four, for example, right now for this release, and understand the process.\n\n\n\nSo if, for example, you are working on enhancement or a feature, they need to be in the trunk before better one. Because it’s like a significant changes, and they need good testing coverage, et cetera. Big things needs to be, go first. If ticket has a keyword early, it should be even before beta one, like right after the previous release. It should be done quickly, because these things can impact a lot.\n\n\n\nAnd then there’s a release candidate one. If you are working on a bug or if you are anything have content change, it should be in the trunk for release candidate one. Because with release candidate one, we have strings freeze. This is time before release candidate one and actual release for Polyglot’s team to be able to translate this new, or changed strings, to their own languages and make WordPress great in their own language.\n\n\n\nPeople need time for this, and we have a huge amount of strings. If you will be starting to contribute to Polyglot’s team, you will start to understand that it’s also a big deal and a big job. So if you’re working on something, you need to fit your patch in this right moment and not after.\n\n\n\nAnd of course, your patch needs to be tested, your patch needs to be reviewed from coding standards, for possible regressions. Possibly you will need to rework some things, or make changes in supporting documentation. For example, each function has this description, yeah, documentation for this function.\n\n\n\nThis is why WordPress is so great. It’s clear, good written documentation inside code. So everything should be fine before it will go to trunk, even if the thing is working itself. Sometimes you need to cover this code with unit tests and you need to take into account these things as well. Sometimes, most of the time, people are surprised about unit tests.\n\n\n\nAnd we have a huge coverage of the code and it’s actually great. It makes things robust. So if you fix some bug, you are covering this part of the code with unit test to be sure that this will not be happening again. And it’s actually great.\n\n\n\n[00:31:09] Nathan Wrigley: There are some places, probably it’s fair to say, which are better places to start. And again, in the show notes that you’ve shared, you’ve alerted me to the fact that it may be that you think something is going to be relatively straightforward. So again, we’re talking about bug fixes here. So we are talking about the code.\n\n\n\nBut it may be that you submit something and it turns out to be more difficult. So what you suggest then is that there are some recommendations for where a new contributor might start. So perhaps not the best idea to find the most difficult and challenging thing first time around. And there is some guidance that you can give in terms of where to look and tickets that are marked in a certain way. So yeah, I wonder if you could get into that.\n\n\n\n[00:31:53] Olga Gleckler: Yes, sometimes ticket can be, look very simple, but can turn into a rabbit hole. For example, my best example so far is changing double equal to triple equal. It can bring a lot of regressions, and you will be browsing, trying to fix other things. And most likely this change will not be worth it. And it will be very difficult to convince everyone else that it’s actually worth doing. And, we will not have ten more bugs because of this one.\n\n\n\nSo sometimes good new patch, like a feature or enhancement, works better. And robust piece of code, when you have like head or tail, it’s great. And we have tickets which are marked as good first bugs. So if you are browsing tickets in Core track, you can see these tickets by this keyword, by search, custom search. And you can even subscribe to this good first bug hashtag on Twitter and following these tickets.\n\n\n\nFor example, if some ticket is not good for you. If you don’t like it or you don’t want to work on UI, for example, or you prefer some other stuff, you can be subscribed to this hashtag, and following along and see what is actually working for you. And start when there will be like right ticket for you.\n\n\n\nBut this can be like a bit shock, because a lot of people are subscribed to this good first bugs, they can be taken and already someone else can make a patch. But another thing is that if there is a patch, it does not mean that you cannot contribute because you can review this patch, you can make improvement to this patch.\n\n\n\nYou can collaborate with other people on this ticket and make it work, and be great and quick. So, don’t abandon some ticket if there is a patch. Work is not done with the patch, it’s just the beginning.\n\n\n\n[00:34:01] Nathan Wrigley: You also make a recommendation to look out for, I guess, if you’re beginning at least anyway, to look out for tickets where the scope is really clear. And you’ve also got channels for feedback.\n\n\n\n[00:34:13] Olga Gleckler: Yes, definitely. Because sometimes scope isn’t clear and it also can turn rabbit hole. So if you have any doubts about tickets, just any, like a tickling feeling inside your head that something is not actually right, you can turn up into the Core channel on Slack, and ask about this ticket.\n\n\n\nSeasoned contributors will look through and clarify things for you. It’s actually better than put up a lot of work and then turn out that something was wrong in the beginning with the ticket and approach is not working. So don’t waste your time, and be ready to collaborate on the ticket from the beginning with other people. And it’s what actually is working.\n\n\n\nIf you are like staying alone and doing something, you can feel lonely and a bit abandoned, and then disappointed. But if you are open to conversation to other people and can receive help, you can provide this help as well. And we are all working on the final result, on WordPress, and it’s great.\n\n\n\n[00:35:23] Nathan Wrigley: I like the way that you’ve rounded off the show notes, because you make the point that whole process of improving WordPress is a continuous learning process. And you may feel that you’ve just provided lots of your time. Maybe your patch wasn’t used, or you ran up against something which you couldn’t work out for yourself, and you needed additional help.\n\n\n\nBut you make the point that it’s okay, you know. It wouldn’t be wise to view that as a waste of time because even negative experiences, when you view them from a distance can often be helpful. You may learn something along the way. So negative results, negative experiences may also turn out with time to be positive experiences. And so I guess that’s kind of a nice way to frame it.\n\n\n\n[00:36:05] Olga Gleckler: Yeah, you can like cut out things that are not working and to make clear paths to things which are working. And then the result, everyone’s contributions count. No matter if you make patch and it wasn’t working, and someone else went and improved your patch and make some additional things. And another iteration, another approach discovered some other possibilities. Upon your negative result, they will be going forward.\n\n\n\n[00:36:37] Nathan Wrigley: Just before we round it off, I do wonder what your thoughts are. It’s very clear from everything that you’ve said that you’re very committed, you’re very keen. You love all this stuff. I wonder what the state of contributions is? I’m particularly thinking about things like the pandemic, for example. And whether or not that had an impact in the amount of time that people were able to give.\n\n\n\nMy understanding is that contributions may have taken a little bit of a dip. I don’t know where we’re at right now. Obviously the program that you mentioned for mentoring earlier is a great way to encourage people, to get people back in. But I don’t know what the situation is. Are people contributing this year in the same way that they were, let’s say, five years ago? I don’t know if you have any data on that at all.\n\n\n\n[00:37:24] Olga Gleckler: I don’t think any data, but yeah, we had a drop in contribution when pandemic started, because everyone was distressed and we need to take care about our family, our health. So we went through this and not once, but several times having this thing.\n\n\n\nBut right now I think we are on the right track. It comes down and we used to new things, and it’s actually turned to be better for everyone. Because, for example, employers understand that people are able to work remotely. And many people right now are working remotely. They got more time. They are saving time on this road to work and back at home.\n\n\n\nSo they are keeping this time and they can contribute more easily. I’m an example for this because I’m working remotely all these nine years. This is why I was able to contribute at the beginning, because otherwise I wouldn’t have time. So I think pandemic, it was horrible, yeah, but it’s turned for the better. And right now we can do more. We can contribute more and we can be more flexible in what we are doing.\n\n\n\n[00:38:45] Nathan Wrigley: Olga, I think we’ll wrap it up there. But before we do, obviously, you’re very keen, and if your passion for contributing has rubbed off on somebody else, and perhaps they would like to talk to you before they jump in with both feet. I wonder if you wouldn’t mind telling us a little bit about where we can find you. That might be a website or a Twitter handle, whatever you like.\n\n\n\n[00:39:07] Olga Gleckler: I think best place to find me is on Slack. Why my name? Because there are several channels, I can put people in the right direction straight away. And because I’m almost always there. I just want everyone to join. But, yes, if you have problems with Slack, and it can happen, then you can reach me on Twitter, and I will be able to help you join WordPress org, create an account, etc. But, probably you can try it yourself.\n\n\n\n[00:39:42] Nathan Wrigley: Olga Gleckler, thank you very much for joining us on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.\n\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Olga Gleckler.\n\n\n\nOlga is a self-taught developer with many years experience. After initially pursuing a career in marketing, she turned back to her passion for programming and became a full-time developer. She has been contributing to WordPress for four years and is currently serving as the Core triage lead for version 6.4. In addition, Olga is a maintainer for two components in Core, and actively participates in various teams within the WordPress community. Outside of work, she is also writing a fantasy book, which is a significant personal project for her.\n\n\n\nOlga has tried her hand in various teams within the community, ranging from Polyglots to Training, Support, and more. She challenges the commonly held misconception that only coders can contribute to the WordPress project, highlighting the many different ways individuals can contribute without coding skills.\n\n\n\nDuring our conversation, Olga shares some examples of non-coding contributions that can be made to the WordPress project. We talk about the process of submitting patches and contributions to WordPress, discussing the schedule for releases, and the importance of understanding the processes and deadlines.\n\n\n\nOlga also emphasises the essential steps of testing, reviewing for coding standards, and ensuring correct documentation in order to make impactful contributions.\n\n\n\nOlga’s journey in the WordPress community has been very varied. She discusses how being a part of this ecosystem has improved her career prospects and gained her trust from others. However, she acknowledges that not everyone finds their place immediately, and may struggle to get started. She explores how to contribute without becoming discouraged, and shares her experiences in the mentorship program that paired mentors with mentees in navigating the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nThroughout the conversation, Olga shows a deep passion for the WordPress project and the collaborative nature of the community. She reminds us that contributing to open-source projects requires patience and persistence, and shares her insights on learning methods, seeking guidance, and asking questions in order to make progress.\n\n\n\nIf you\u2019ve thought about contributing to WordPress, but are not sure where to begin, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nUseful links.\n\n\n\nContribute Mentorship Program\n\n\n\nLearn WordPress\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.4 Development Cycle\n\n\n\nPolyglots Team\n\n\n\nWordPress Core Trac\n\n\n\nOlga’s Twitter", "date_published": "2023-09-13T10:00:00-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-11T05:51:30-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/90-Olga-Gleckler-on-How-Anyone-Can-Contribute-to-the-WordPress-Project.jpeg", "tags": [ "contributing", "podcast" ], "summary": "On the podcast today we have Olga Gleckler. Olga is a self-taught developer with many years experience. After initially pursuing a career in marketing, she turned back to her passion for programming and became a full-time developer. Olga has tried her hand in various teams within the community, ranging from Polyglots to Training, Support, and more. She challenges the commonly held misconception that only coders can contribute to the WordPress project, highlighting the many different ways individuals can contribute without coding skills. During our conversation, Olga shares some examples of non-coding contributions that can be made to the WordPress project. We talk about the process of submitting patches and contributions to WordPress, discussing the schedule for releases, and the importance of understanding the processes and deadlines. If you\u2019ve thought about contributing to WordPress, but are not sure where to begin, this episode is for you.", "attachments": [ { "url": "https://episodes.castos.com/601a97348e9993-63339407/2d647fbf-aa55-49e2-bb25-16d8fc41d02e-90-Olga-Gleckler-on-How-Anyone-Can-Contribute-to-the-WordPress-Project.mp3", "mime_type": "", "size_in_bytes": 0 } ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148726", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-plugin-developers-renew-demands-for-better-plugin-metrics", "title": "WordPress Plugin Developers Renew Demands for Better Plugin Metrics", "content_html": "\n

It has be nearly one year since WordPress silently turned off active install growth data for plugins hosted in the official plugin repository, a key metric that many developers rely on for accurate tracking and product decision-making. \u201cInsufficient data obfuscation\u201d was cited as the reason for the charts\u2019 removal, but this opaque decision landed without any communication from those who had made the call in a private discussion.

\n\n\n\n

In a ticket originally titled \u201cBring back the active install growth chart,\u201d RebelCode CEO Mark Zahra made the opening plea for thousands of plugin developers who were asking for the return of this data. From those who simply host hobby plugins and enjoy the thrill of watching people use software they made to business owners who need this data to make critical decisions, the overwhelming consensus was that this data is valuable and should be available to those who are contributing to WordPress through plugins.

\n\n\n\n

In an appearance on the WPwatercooler podcast last year, Audrey Capital-sponsored meta contributor Samuel “Otto” Wood confirmed the decision was made through private channels via Slack DMs in a discussion initiated by Matt Mullenweg. He also revealed that the active install growth chart was removed because it was giving inaccurate data and that the data one could derive from it was inaccurate:

\n\n\n\n
\n

I read through all that discussion and we worked, they worked on it for a long, Scott and several people tried various things before removing it. They adjusted the values, they adjusted numbers. They, they went through a ridiculous amount of iteration and in the end, none of it worked. People were still using it even though it was giving them basically garbage. So finally removing it was the only thing to do. We did have a plan for replacing it. We just didn\u2019t have a plan for replacing it immediately. Nevertheless, giving them active install count numbers that are wrong is more harmful, we felt, to both users and developers interests than simply not giving them at all. 

\n
\n\n\n\n

Wood offered an explanation on the podcast that should have been delivered weeks earlier by those involved in the discussion on official channels. Despite the earlier data being flawed and “insufficiently obfuscated,” developers still want access to the raw data, not interpretations of that data.

\n\n\n\n

These are the posts that track the history and development of developers’ pleas to reinstate access to the data:

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

During the height of this discussion, developers made many suggestions for different data points that would be meaningful for tracking their efforts, and Matt Mullenweg responded that he was amenable to showing more stats to plugin authors about their plugins. No progress on this effort has been reported since then.

\n\n\n\n

 StellarWP Product Marketing Director Taylor Waldon has reopened this discussion nearly a year later, calling on Mullenweg to stop restricting access to plugin data from people who are hosting themes and plugins on WordPress.org.

\n\n\n\n
\n

Dear @photomatt

Without (real) Active Install data, we are not able to measure the success of our free product. Downloads is not the right KPI. Please bring it back.

Sincerely,
All WP Marketers with free products on .org.

If you agree, please RT, reply, etc. #WordPress

— Taylor Elizabeth Rose | Find me on Bluesky (@tElizaRose) September 5, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

“I talked to a bunch of folks at [WCUS] contributor day,” Paid Memberships Pro co-founder and CEO Jason Coleman said in response to Waldon’s tweet. “As far as I know, there isn’t any other current effort to update or replace the install count numbers or old ‘growth’ chart.'”

\n\n\n\n

Coleman put together a draft proposal with some ideas from his conversations. The document describes a common scenario where plugin developers are left in the dark about the growth or decline of their plugins’ active installations:

\n\n\n\n
\n

Imagine a developer with a plugin with 150k active installations. That developer has effectively 0 quantitative feedback on whether users of his plugin are growing or falling. The download count has a trend, but there is no separation between new downloads and updates. The download count tracks developmental pace as much as user growth. A bump in downloads could be due to a security vulnerability being patched or an influx of new users. The current active installations count is severely rounded and offers no feedback until such a plugin either gains or loses 33% of its users, which are drastically different outcomes.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Coleman contends that plugins hosted outside of WordPress.org are able to gather more meaningful metrics. Popular plugins have resorted to including features in non-WordPress.org add-ons or simply removing their extensions altogether from the repository for lack of data.

\n\n\n\n

His proposal includes a few metrics that would help developers better track their plugins, even if that data is only shown to the authors themselves:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Coleman’s draft is still in progress and so far he is the only one who has authored the document. If the recommended actions gain any traction, he said he hopes to be part of the contributor team that implements the changes.

\n\n\n\n

“The intention was to write something that could be proposed to meta team,” Coleman said. “But honestly, I thought I would write it up, it would get shot down, and then I could move on with my life. Even if nothing got updated, it would be more clear to me and others which parts of the .org code were in public repositories and which were in the private repositories. It would be more clear what the real issues are with the active installs count.

\n\n\n\n

“The communication around the removal of the active install growth chart caused many to lose trust in parts of the WordPress .org project. I thought some clarity around how things work and the real reasons around the changes would help to rebuild some of that trust that was lost.”

\n\n\n\n

WordPress.org has always been the most popular distribution channel for the most widely used plugins, but the data available has not kept pace with developer and business needs. Releasing the raw data, while respecting any privacy limitations, would allow developers to extract their own interpretations of that data and allow services to present it in creative ways.

\n\n\n\n

At the very least, this data should be available to developers (even if it’s not public) to help them better track the trajectory of their plugins and the efficacy of their marketing efforts. More data can only serve to improve the WordPress ecosystem’s ability to continue powering a multi-billion dollar economy. There are undoubtedly many technical requirements for supporting the release of this data, and they need to be prioritized if WordPress.org is to continue attracting the best products for distribution.

\n\n\n\n

“This is not about vanity metrics or inflating numbers for marketing purposes,” Coleman said. “This is about getting valuable feedback on the relative use of a plugin hosted in the .org repository so developers can make informed decisions and investments in those plugins.”

\n", "content_text": "It has be nearly one year since WordPress silently turned off active install growth data for plugins hosted in the official plugin repository, a key metric that many developers rely on for accurate tracking and product decision-making. \u201cInsufficient data obfuscation\u201d was cited as the reason for the charts\u2019 removal, but this opaque decision landed without any communication from those who had made the call in a private discussion.\n\n\n\nIn a ticket originally titled \u201cBring back the active install growth chart,\u201d RebelCode CEO Mark Zahra made the opening plea for thousands of plugin developers who were asking for the return of this data. From those who simply host hobby plugins and enjoy the thrill of watching people use software they made to business owners who need this data to make critical decisions, the overwhelming consensus was that this data is valuable and should be available to those who are contributing to WordPress through plugins.\n\n\n\nIn an appearance on the WPwatercooler podcast last year, Audrey Capital-sponsored meta contributor Samuel “Otto” Wood confirmed the decision was made through private channels via Slack DMs in a discussion initiated by Matt Mullenweg. He also revealed that the active install growth chart was removed because it was giving inaccurate data and that the data one could derive from it was inaccurate:\n\n\n\n\nI read through all that discussion and we worked, they worked on it for a long, Scott and several people tried various things before removing it. They adjusted the values, they adjusted numbers. They, they went through a ridiculous amount of iteration and in the end, none of it worked. People were still using it even though it was giving them basically garbage. So finally removing it was the only thing to do. We did have a plan for replacing it. We just didn\u2019t have a plan for replacing it immediately. Nevertheless, giving them active install count numbers that are wrong is more harmful, we felt, to both users and developers interests than simply not giving them at all. \n\n\n\n\nWood offered an explanation on the podcast that should have been delivered weeks earlier by those involved in the discussion on official channels. Despite the earlier data being flawed and “insufficiently obfuscated,” developers still want access to the raw data, not interpretations of that data. \n\n\n\nThese are the posts that track the history and development of developers’ pleas to reinstate access to the data:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWordPress.org Removes Active Install Growth Data for Plugins\n\n\n\nWordPress.org Plugin Developers Demand Transparency Regarding the Removal of Active Install Growth Data\n\n\n\nDiscussion on Replacing Plugin Active Install Growth Data Continues Behind Closed Doors\n\n\n\n\nDuring the height of this discussion, developers made many suggestions for different data points that would be meaningful for tracking their efforts, and Matt Mullenweg responded that he was amenable to showing more stats to plugin authors about their plugins. No progress on this effort has been reported since then.\n\n\n\n StellarWP Product Marketing Director Taylor Waldon has reopened this discussion nearly a year later, calling on Mullenweg to stop restricting access to plugin data from people who are hosting themes and plugins on WordPress.org.\n\n\n\n\nDear @photomatt Without (real) Active Install data, we are not able to measure the success of our free product. Downloads is not the right KPI. Please bring it back. Sincerely,All WP Marketers with free products on .org. If you agree, please RT, reply, etc. #WordPress— Taylor Elizabeth Rose | Find me on Bluesky (@tElizaRose) September 5, 2023\n\n\n\n\n“I talked to a bunch of folks at [WCUS] contributor day,” Paid Memberships Pro co-founder and CEO Jason Coleman said in response to Waldon’s tweet. “As far as I know, there isn’t any other current effort to update or replace the install count numbers or old ‘growth’ chart.'”\n\n\n\nColeman put together a draft proposal with some ideas from his conversations. The document describes a common scenario where plugin developers are left in the dark about the growth or decline of their plugins’ active installations:\n\n\n\n\nImagine a developer with a plugin with 150k active installations. That developer has effectively 0 quantitative feedback on whether users of his plugin are growing or falling. The download count has a trend, but there is no separation between new downloads and updates. The download count tracks developmental pace as much as user growth. A bump in downloads could be due to a security vulnerability being patched or an influx of new users. The current active installations count is severely rounded and offers no feedback until such a plugin either gains or loses 33% of its users, which are drastically different outcomes.\n\n\n\n\nColeman contends that plugins hosted outside of WordPress.org are able to gather more meaningful metrics. Popular plugins have resorted to including features in non-WordPress.org add-ons or simply removing their extensions altogether from the repository for lack of data. \n\n\n\nHis proposal includes a few metrics that would help developers better track their plugins, even if that data is only shown to the authors themselves:\n\n\n\n\nShare a more accurate active installations count with the owners of a plugin.\n\n\n\nShare more accurate version number counts with the owners of a plugin.\n\n\n\nDifferentiate the download count by type: website downloads, dashboard installs, dashboard downloads, updates, other (hits to the zip file).\n\n\n\nAllow plugin developers to define custom event triggers to be tallied and displayed to the plugin owners on the plugins .org profile page.\n\n\n\n\nColeman’s draft is still in progress and so far he is the only one who has authored the document. If the recommended actions gain any traction, he said he hopes to be part of the contributor team that implements the changes. \n\n\n\n“The intention was to write something that could be proposed to meta team,” Coleman said. “But honestly, I thought I would write it up, it would get shot down, and then I could move on with my life. Even if nothing got updated, it would be more clear to me and others which parts of the .org code were in public repositories and which were in the private repositories. It would be more clear what the real issues are with the active installs count.\n\n\n\n“The communication around the removal of the active install growth chart caused many to lose trust in parts of the WordPress .org project. I thought some clarity around how things work and the real reasons around the changes would help to rebuild some of that trust that was lost.”\n\n\n\nWordPress.org has always been the most popular distribution channel for the most widely used plugins, but the data available has not kept pace with developer and business needs. Releasing the raw data, while respecting any privacy limitations, would allow developers to extract their own interpretations of that data and allow services to present it in creative ways.\n\n\n\nAt the very least, this data should be available to developers (even if it’s not public) to help them better track the trajectory of their plugins and the efficacy of their marketing efforts. More data can only serve to improve the WordPress ecosystem’s ability to continue powering a multi-billion dollar economy. There are undoubtedly many technical requirements for supporting the release of this data, and they need to be prioritized if WordPress.org is to continue attracting the best products for distribution.\n\n\n\n“This is not about vanity metrics or inflating numbers for marketing purposes,” Coleman said. “This is about getting valuable feedback on the relative use of a plugin hosted in the .org repository so developers can make informed decisions and investments in those plugins.”", "date_published": "2023-09-12T16:24:26-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-13T12:29:16-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/chart.jpeg", "tags": [ "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148690", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wordpress-training-team-seeks-community-feedback-on-learning-pathways", "title": "WordPress Training Team Seeks Community Feedback on Learning Pathways", "content_html": "\n

Earlier this year, the WordPress Training Team published the results from the Individual Learner Survey completed in 2022. The goal of the survey was to identify the most useful and high-impact resources and content for Learn.WordPress.org and guide the future development of this community learning tool.

\n\n\n\n

One of the main takeaways of this survey was the need for a clear, structured, and user-friendly approach to presenting Learn WordPress content. This need was also confirmed by feedback from WordCamp Europe Contributor Day attendees.

\n\n\n\n

As a result, the training team launched the Learning Pathways on Learn WordPress project in July of this year. The objective of this project is to create and launch progressive user-friendly learning pathways tailored to different types of Learners on Learn WordPress. The training team anticipates that this project will be a year-long effort, working collaboratively with multiple different teams, including the Meta and Marketing teams.\u00a0

\n\n\n\n

Since WordCamp Europe, the Training Team has started the process of drafting rough outlines for learning pathways intended for Users, Designers, and Developers.

\n\n\n\n

In August, Automattic-sponsored training team contributor Wes Theron published a post on the training team blog, asking for community feedback on the proposed learning pathways.\u00a0

\n\n\n\n

I asked Theron why he feels this project is so important, and what feedback he would like from the community:

\n\n\n\n
\n

The Learning Pathways project focuses on improving the educational experience on Learn WordPress by creating personalized learning journeys for various learner profiles. These tailored pathways aim to enhance the Learn WordPress platform’s effectiveness and user-friendliness.

\n\n\n\n

We have drafted the rough outlines for learning pathways intended for Users, Designers, and Developers. We’re excited to get the community’s thoughts and ideas to help shape them further before moving forward.

\n
\n\n\n\n

\n\n\n\n

The Training Team has set the deadline for feedback for the 15th of September 2023. If you would like to review the proposed learning pathways and provide your feedback, you can do so from the Looking for feedback: Learning pathway outlines post on the Training Team blog.

\n", "content_text": "Earlier this year, the WordPress Training Team published the results from the Individual Learner Survey completed in 2022. The goal of the survey was to identify the most useful and high-impact resources and content for Learn.WordPress.org and guide the future development of this community learning tool.\n\n\n\nOne of the main takeaways of this survey was the need for a clear, structured, and user-friendly approach to presenting Learn WordPress content. This need was also confirmed by feedback from WordCamp Europe Contributor Day attendees.\n\n\n\nAs a result, the training team launched the Learning Pathways on Learn WordPress project in July of this year. The objective of this project is to create and launch progressive user-friendly learning pathways tailored to different types of Learners on Learn WordPress. The training team anticipates that this project will be a year-long effort, working collaboratively with multiple different teams, including the Meta and Marketing teams.\u00a0\n\n\n\nSince WordCamp Europe, the Training Team has started the process of drafting rough outlines for learning pathways intended for Users, Designers, and Developers.\n\n\n\nIn August, Automattic-sponsored training team contributor Wes Theron published a post on the training team blog, asking for community feedback on the proposed learning pathways.\u00a0\n\n\n\nI asked Theron why he feels this project is so important, and what feedback he would like from the community:\n\n\n\n\nThe Learning Pathways project focuses on improving the educational experience on Learn WordPress by creating personalized learning journeys for various learner profiles. These tailored pathways aim to enhance the Learn WordPress platform’s effectiveness and user-friendliness.\n\n\n\nWe have drafted the rough outlines for learning pathways intended for Users, Designers, and Developers. We’re excited to get the community’s thoughts and ideas to help shape them further before moving forward.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe Training Team has set the deadline for feedback for the 15th of September 2023. If you would like to review the proposed learning pathways and provide your feedback, you can do so from the Looking for feedback: Learning pathway outlines post on the Training Team blog.", "date_published": "2023-09-11T23:24:54-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-11T23:24:55-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Jonathan Bossenger", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/jonathanbossenger", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4fd3f3bbf5f32f9e4738a00d58bdbc57?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Jonathan Bossenger", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/jonathanbossenger", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4fd3f3bbf5f32f9e4738a00d58bdbc57?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/pathways.jpeg", "tags": [ "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148679", "url": "https://wptavern.com/10up-merges-with-fueled-backed-by-insignia-capital", "title": "10up Merges With Fueled, Backed by Insignia Capital", "content_html": "\n

10up, a leading development agency and contributor to the WordPress project, has merged with Fueled, a technology consultancy that specializes in mobile and web application development. Together, the companies now employ more than 400 full time team\u00a0members, forming a digital powerhouse with expanded market reach across mobile and publishing sectors.

\n\n\n\n

“Fueled has built stand out iOS and Android apps \u2013\u00a0several of which I\u2019ve personally used \u2013 for clients like\u00a0Warby Parker,\u00a0Verizon, the United Nations, and even Apple themselves,” 10up President Jake Goldman said. “Just as 10up has\u00a0built some great mobile applications, Fueled has executed notable works in the web application space for clients like\u00a0Wall Street Journal\u00a0and\u00a0The New York Times\u00a0\u2013 but content management systems and editorial experience has never been a core focus and strength. Until\u00a0now.”

\n\n\n\n

The merger transaction was made possible by investment from\u00a0Insignia Capital, a firm that previously invested in Fueled. Insignia has made Fueled’s merger with 10up its first major growth investment, paying to restructure the companies’ ownership model. All parties invested in the merger hold meaningful shares, with none of them holding a majority share.

\n\n\n\n

Goldman said 10up owners rolled over meaningful equity into the joint business, “but there was also a very healthy purchase of 10up equity to make this possible.”

\n\n\n\n

10up’s announcement hinted at more acquisitions in the newly combined companies’ future.

\n\n\n\n

“Insignia brings a whole new class of financial and investment capabilities to 10up and Fueled, with an appetite for responsibly paced growth through acquisition,” Goldman said. “They don\u2019t just bring capital \u2013 they also bring expertise and impressive\u00a0connections.”

\n\n\n\n

He further elaborated on their acquisition strategy as seeking to expand their combined capabilities “to compete with the biggest digital transformation agencies:”

\n\n\n\n
\n

In the broadest of terms, I think that we\u2019re pretty open minded to what we find in the market, but opportunities that meaningfully expand what we can offer – shoring up weaker spots in our capabilities – are going to be the most attractive. As examples, while we\u2019ve each done CRM and CDP integration work and strategy, I\u2019d imagine a first rate CRM and/or CDP consultancy with some great case studies and clients would be the kind of opportunity that would be particularly interesting.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Open Source Contribution Will Continue To Be a Priority at 10up

\n\n\n\n

Nearly 12 years after Goldman started 10up with what he said was “a small personal savings account and the sweat equity of more than a decade making websites and other media,” he is no longer the sole leader of the organization and will take on the role of Partner in the merged companies. Integral to the success of 10up, which Goldman has scaled to $40M+ in annual revenue, is its consistent commitment to supporting the open source ecosystem from which it has derived millions of dollars in value. Fueled acknowledged this in its announcement about the merger:

\n\n\n\n
\n

10up has long held a commitment to the open web, and open source contributions as a core value. This will remain a priority, especially towards the WordPress community, and will be further strengthened by the additional market reach gained from the merger.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Fueled shares this same ethos, which they intend to continue cultivating following the merger.

\n\n\n\n

“Fueled has always been supportive of open source, even if their part of the market (mobile apps) hasn’t embraced that model in the way web CMS has,” Goldman said. “They have open sourced projects (in fact, we incidentally found that we were using one!), and, like 10up, have fully embraced and focused on open technology solutions like NodeJS and React for web applications.”

\n\n\n\n

For the most recent WordPress 6.3 release, 10up had the second most contributions by company, with 290 contributions from 16 people, superseded only by Automattic, which boasts 83 contributors.

\n\n\n\n

\u00a0

\n\n\n\n
\"\"/
image credit: WordPress 6.3 contribution stats
\n\n\n\n

10up has consistently been among the top contributors to the software, which has been essential to the world-class publishing experiences the company has built for its clients.

\n\n\n\n

“That commitment to giving back to the web, making sure there’s a ladder for the next generation of developers to climb, and helping open technologies thrive remains with us,” Goldman said. “Our new business partners understand that this is deeply intertwined with 10up’s identity, and perhaps more importantly, our\u00a0success. It’s not\u00a0just\u00a0a generosity thing \u2013 it’s also good business.

\n\n\n\n

“Merging with and investing in 10up would be pretty foolish if you aren’t comfortable with the tools and platforms we use and prefer, most especially the web’s most popular open source CMS, and you can bet that being comfortable with that, and researching that question, was essential to their comfort with merging. In many ways, that’s a validation for WordPress.”

\n\n\n\n

10up and Fueled Will Gradually Merge Services and Administration, Pursuing Large Scale Digital Transformation Clients

\n\n\n\n

10up and Fueled will largely operate as two companies and close partners for the time being, sharing leads and pursuing customer growth together. Goldman said the vision is not to simply have web publishing/WordPress customers and separate mobile app customers but rather to go after large scale digital transformation projects.

\n\n\n\n

“That means having a fully integrated way to deliver everything from the mobile apps, to the website and CMS, to advanced e-commerce and CRM integrations (even if we may only provide one of those services to some clients),” he said. “That means we’re not just operating as separate companies in the\u00a0future, but truly merging and unifying our companies from leadership and sales on down through project and product management, user research and design, and engineering delivery.”

\n\n\n\n

Given that both brands hold considerable weight and influence in their respective markets, Goldman said they agreed “it would be incredibly foolish to discount that and rush to a single brand.” Instead, they plan to explore how the companies can work together.

\n\n\n\n

“We honestly don’t know where we’ll land on the external brand question, and didn’t think it was fundamental to the question of merging,” Goldman said. “We’ll be exploring and researching that question together, and any change would, again, be gradual and planned.

\n\n\n\n

“We all similarly agree that when we think out into the future, whether that’s 12 or 24 months from now (probably something in between), that we probably don’t want two separate, external, top line company brands competing for attention and oxygen in the space, to say nothing of competing for internal focus and resources.”

\n\n\n\n

He said that could play out in a number of ways, and may be a data driven decision. For example, 10up could evolve to be the brand name for the WordPress engineering services team or the company’s open source and productized solutions. Nothing has been predetermined about the branding.

\n\n\n\n

In the meantime, it appears to that the combination of companies will be a more gradual merging of services and administration.

\n\n\n\n

“In the mid term, maybe the next year, we want to focus on building a highly collaborative world class sales and growth operation, unifying back office (benefits management, financial operations, recruiting ops, etc), and looking at where some of our smaller capabilities and disciplines that aren’t very specific to 10up or Fueled delivery might benefit from joining forces and achieving some economy of scale,” Goldman said.

\n", "content_text": "10up, a leading development agency and contributor to the WordPress project, has merged with Fueled, a technology consultancy that specializes in mobile and web application development. Together, the companies now employ more than 400 full time team\u00a0members, forming a digital powerhouse with expanded market reach across mobile and publishing sectors.\n\n\n\n“Fueled has built stand out iOS and Android apps \u2013\u00a0several of which I\u2019ve personally used \u2013 for clients like\u00a0Warby Parker,\u00a0Verizon, the United Nations, and even Apple themselves,” 10up President Jake Goldman said. “Just as 10up has\u00a0built some great mobile applications, Fueled has executed notable works in the web application space for clients like\u00a0Wall Street Journal\u00a0and\u00a0The New York Times\u00a0\u2013 but content management systems and editorial experience has never been a core focus and strength. Until\u00a0now.”\n\n\n\nThe merger transaction was made possible by investment from\u00a0Insignia Capital, a firm that previously invested in Fueled. Insignia has made Fueled’s merger with 10up its first major growth investment, paying to restructure the companies’ ownership model. All parties invested in the merger hold meaningful shares, with none of them holding a majority share.\n\n\n\nGoldman said 10up owners rolled over meaningful equity into the joint business, “but there was also a very healthy purchase of 10up equity to make this possible.”\n\n\n\n10up’s announcement hinted at more acquisitions in the newly combined companies’ future.\n\n\n\n“Insignia brings a whole new class of financial and investment capabilities to 10up and Fueled, with an appetite for responsibly paced growth through acquisition,” Goldman said. “They don\u2019t just bring capital \u2013 they also bring expertise and impressive\u00a0connections.”\n\n\n\nHe further elaborated on their acquisition strategy as seeking to expand their combined capabilities “to compete with the biggest digital transformation agencies:”\n\n\n\n\nIn the broadest of terms, I think that we\u2019re pretty open minded to what we find in the market, but opportunities that meaningfully expand what we can offer – shoring up weaker spots in our capabilities – are going to be the most attractive. As examples, while we\u2019ve each done CRM and CDP integration work and strategy, I\u2019d imagine a first rate CRM and/or CDP consultancy with some great case studies and clients would be the kind of opportunity that would be particularly interesting.\n\n\n\n\nOpen Source Contribution Will Continue To Be a Priority at 10up\n\n\n\nNearly 12 years after Goldman started 10up with what he said was “a small personal savings account and the sweat equity of more than a decade making websites and other media,” he is no longer the sole leader of the organization and will take on the role of Partner in the merged companies. Integral to the success of 10up, which Goldman has scaled to $40M+ in annual revenue, is its consistent commitment to supporting the open source ecosystem from which it has derived millions of dollars in value. Fueled acknowledged this in its announcement about the merger:\n\n\n\n\n10up has long held a commitment to the open web, and open source contributions as a core value. This will remain a priority, especially towards the WordPress community, and will be further strengthened by the additional market reach gained from the merger.\n\n\n\n\nFueled shares this same ethos, which they intend to continue cultivating following the merger.\n\n\n\n“Fueled has always been supportive of open source, even if their part of the market (mobile apps) hasn’t embraced that model in the way web CMS has,” Goldman said. “They have open sourced projects (in fact, we incidentally found that we were using one!), and, like 10up, have fully embraced and focused on open technology solutions like NodeJS and React for web applications.”\n\n\n\nFor the most recent WordPress 6.3 release, 10up had the second most contributions by company, with 290 contributions from 16 people, superseded only by Automattic, which boasts 83 contributors. \n\n\n\n\u00a0\n\n\n\nimage credit: WordPress 6.3 contribution stats\n\n\n\n10up has consistently been among the top contributors to the software, which has been essential to the world-class publishing experiences the company has built for its clients.\n\n\n\n“That commitment to giving back to the web, making sure there’s a ladder for the next generation of developers to climb, and helping open technologies thrive remains with us,” Goldman said. “Our new business partners understand that this is deeply intertwined with 10up’s identity, and perhaps more importantly, our\u00a0success. It’s not\u00a0just\u00a0a generosity thing \u2013 it’s also good business.\n\n\n\n“Merging with and investing in 10up would be pretty foolish if you aren’t comfortable with the tools and platforms we use and prefer, most especially the web’s most popular open source CMS, and you can bet that being comfortable with that, and researching that question, was essential to their comfort with merging. In many ways, that’s a validation for WordPress.”\n\n\n\n10up and Fueled Will Gradually Merge Services and Administration, Pursuing Large Scale Digital Transformation Clients\n\n\n\n10up and Fueled will largely operate as two companies and close partners for the time being, sharing leads and pursuing customer growth together. Goldman said the vision is not to simply have web publishing/WordPress customers and separate mobile app customers but rather to go after large scale digital transformation projects.\n\n\n\n“That means having a fully integrated way to deliver everything from the mobile apps, to the website and CMS, to advanced e-commerce and CRM integrations (even if we may only provide one of those services to some clients),” he said. “That means we’re not just operating as separate companies in the\u00a0future, but truly merging and unifying our companies from leadership and sales on down through project and product management, user research and design, and engineering delivery.”\n\n\n\nGiven that both brands hold considerable weight and influence in their respective markets, Goldman said they agreed “it would be incredibly foolish to discount that and rush to a single brand.” Instead, they plan to explore how the companies can work together.\n\n\n\n“We honestly don’t know where we’ll land on the external brand question, and didn’t think it was fundamental to the question of merging,” Goldman said. “We’ll be exploring and researching that question together, and any change would, again, be gradual and planned.\n\n\n\n“We all similarly agree that when we think out into the future, whether that’s 12 or 24 months from now (probably something in between), that we probably don’t want two separate, external, top line company brands competing for attention and oxygen in the space, to say nothing of competing for internal focus and resources.”\n\n\n\nHe said that could play out in a number of ways, and may be a data driven decision. For example, 10up could evolve to be the brand name for the WordPress engineering services team or the company’s open source and productized solutions. Nothing has been predetermined about the branding.\n\n\n\nIn the meantime, it appears to that the combination of companies will be a more gradual merging of services and administration.\n\n\n\n“In the mid term, maybe the next year, we want to focus on building a highly collaborative world class sales and growth operation, unifying back office (benefits management, financial operations, recruiting ops, etc), and looking at where some of our smaller capabilities and disciplines that aren’t very specific to 10up or Fueled delivery might benefit from joining forces and achieving some economy of scale,” Goldman said.", "date_published": "2023-09-11T17:12:15-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-11T17:12:17-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/10up-logo.png", "tags": [ "10up", "open source", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148596", "url": "https://wptavern.com/wp-includes-launches-women-in-wordpress-mentorship-program", "title": "WP Includes Launches Women in WordPress Mentorship Program", "content_html": "\n
\"\"
photo credit: Brodie Vissers
\n\n\n\n

WP Includes is a new initiative that launched this week with the goal of improving equal representation of women at global WordPress companies. It was founded by Human Made\u00a0COO\u00a0Siobhan McKeown\u00a0and\u00a0XWP\u00a0Director of Engineering\u00a0Francesca Marano.

\n\n\n\n

“I’ve been in WordPress a long time and I’ve met a lot of talented women but not enough in leadership roles. It’s time to change that,” McKeown said.

\n\n\n\n

The website states the founders’ mission in launching the initiative:

\n\n\n\n
\n

Disappointed by the lack of representation of women in leadership roles at companies in the WordPress ecosystem we\u2019ve decided to do something about it.

\n\n\n\n

We want to drastically increase representation of women in leadership roles at WordPress companies. We will do this by mentoring and supporting women to take the next step in their careers.

\n
\n\n\n\n

WP Includes is recruiting women leaders who are C-Level or Directors
at a WordPress company to volunteer as mentors and build a supportive network of mentees.

\n\n\n\n

The mentorship program lasts five months and calls for mentees/mentors goes out twice a year in September and March. Mentors commit to meet with mentees for a 1:1 on a regular basis and support them in achieving their goals. Mentee applicants are required to be working at a business in the WordPress ecosystem and actively developing their careers.

\n\n\n\n

WP Includes is accepting sponsorships from companies with some rigorous requirements:

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Supporting organizations can also contribute by sharing open roles within the network and by providing mentorship to future leaders who may potentially be considered for leadership roles in the sponsoring organizations. This is effectively changing representation from the inside out with cooperating organizations contributing to the cultivation of the leaders they need in order to purse more diverse leadership teams.

\n\n\n\n

Prospective mentees, mentors, and sponsors can apply on the WP Includes website.

\n", "content_text": "photo credit: Brodie Vissers\n\n\n\nWP Includes is a new initiative that launched this week with the goal of improving equal representation of women at global WordPress companies. It was founded by Human Made\u00a0COO\u00a0Siobhan McKeown\u00a0and\u00a0XWP\u00a0Director of Engineering\u00a0Francesca Marano.\n\n\n\n“I’ve been in WordPress a long time and I’ve met a lot of talented women but not enough in leadership roles. It’s time to change that,” McKeown said.\n\n\n\nThe website states the founders’ mission in launching the initiative:\n\n\n\n\nDisappointed by the lack of representation of women in leadership roles at companies in the WordPress ecosystem we\u2019ve decided to do something about it.\n\n\n\nWe want to drastically increase representation of women in leadership roles at WordPress companies. We will do this by mentoring and supporting women to take the next step in their careers.\n\n\n\n\nWP Includes is recruiting women leaders who are C-Level or Directors at a WordPress company to volunteer as mentors and build a supportive network of mentees.\n\n\n\nThe mentorship program lasts five months and calls for mentees/mentors goes out twice a year in September and March. Mentors commit to meet with mentees for a 1:1 on a regular basis and support them in achieving their goals. Mentee applicants are required to be working at a business in the WordPress ecosystem and actively developing their careers.\n\n\n\nWP Includes is accepting sponsorships from companies with some rigorous requirements:\n\n\n\n\nAcknowledge gender disparity and a lack of representation in your organization, wherever it exists.\n\n\n\nProactively address gender disparity in your leadership and executive roles.\n\n\n\nWhen senior roles become available, actively seek to place women within those roles.\n\n\n\nSupport women within their career in your organization, working to ensure that any gender-related barriers are removed.\n\n\n\nCreate opportunities to showcase women leaders in your organisation so that they can act as role models for future leaders.\n\n\n\n\nSupporting organizations can also contribute by sharing open roles within the network and by providing mentorship to future leaders who may potentially be considered for leadership roles in the sponsoring organizations. This is effectively changing representation from the inside out with cooperating organizations contributing to the cultivation of the leaders they need in order to purse more diverse leadership teams.\n\n\n\nProspective mentees, mentors, and sponsors can apply on the WP Includes website.", "date_published": "2023-09-08T22:31:25-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-22T22:37:07-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/women-working.jpeg", "tags": [ "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148573", "url": "https://wptavern.com/acfs-2023-annual-survey-results-reinforce-plugins-focus-on-improving-the-block-building-experience", "title": "ACF\u2019s 2023 Annual Survey Results Reinforce Plugin\u2019s Focus on Improving the Block Building Experience", "content_html": "\n

Advanced Custom Fields (ACF), one of the plugins WP Engine\u00a0acquired from Delicious Brains\u00a0in 2022, has published the results if its first annual survey. Although ACF reports more than 4.5 million active users, including PRO site installs, the survey only gathered feedback from 2,031 respondents.

\n\n\n\n

These results are more representative of the plugin’s developer community, as 81% of respondents are developers who maintain between 11-50 websites. 63% use version control for their codebase, and 27% manage dependencies with Composer.

\n\n\n\n

The survey showed that ACF is still an important tool for its early adopters, as 50% said they have been using it since its early days and 70% of all respondents use the plugin on all the websites they build.

\n\n\n\n

When asked what type of sites they are building, respondents had the option to choose multiple answers. Sites using Classic WordPress themes are the most popular followed by Hybrid themes, Block themes, and page builders. Surveying those who use the block editor, 56% report that they build blocks using ACF blocks.

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“It was cool to see the strong representation of hybrid and block themes,” WP Engine Product Marketing Manager Rob Stinson said. “It shows us that there is growing adoption of the modern WP editor experience amongst the PHP friendly crowd that is the ACF user base.

\n\n\n\n

“We had this scoped for upcoming releases anyway, but it reinforces our focus on improving the block building experience in ACF.”

\n\n\n\n

Among those ACF users building sites with page builders, the most popular selections include Elementor, Divi, Beaver Builder, and WPBakery Page Builder. Naturally, ACF Extended is the most popular extension used with ACF, followed by Gravity Forms, Yoast SEO, and ACF Better Search.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
\"\"
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Respondents demonstrated high confidence in those maintaining the plugin, as 98% of them are comfortable updating ACF to the latest version. They are also confident in continuing to build on top of WordPress, as 91% of survey participants said they are likely to continue with the platform. For a more detailed look at the questions and responses, check out the 2023 annual survey results on the ACF website.

\n", "content_text": "Advanced Custom Fields (ACF), one of the plugins WP Engine\u00a0acquired from Delicious Brains\u00a0in 2022, has published the results if its first annual survey. Although ACF reports more than 4.5 million active users, including PRO site installs, the survey only gathered feedback from 2,031 respondents. \n\n\n\nThese results are more representative of the plugin’s developer community, as 81% of respondents are developers who maintain between 11-50 websites. 63% use version control for their codebase, and 27% manage dependencies with Composer.\n\n\n\nThe survey showed that ACF is still an important tool for its early adopters, as 50% said they have been using it since its early days and 70% of all respondents use the plugin on all the websites they build.\n\n\n\nWhen asked what type of sites they are building, respondents had the option to choose multiple answers. Sites using Classic WordPress themes are the most popular followed by Hybrid themes, Block themes, and page builders. Surveying those who use the block editor, 56% report that they build blocks using ACF blocks.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n“It was cool to see the strong representation of hybrid and block themes,” WP Engine Product Marketing Manager Rob Stinson said. “It shows us that there is growing adoption of the modern WP editor experience amongst the PHP friendly crowd that is the ACF user base. \n\n\n\n“We had this scoped for upcoming releases anyway, but it reinforces our focus on improving the block building experience in ACF.”\n\n\n\nAmong those ACF users building sites with page builders, the most popular selections include Elementor, Divi, Beaver Builder, and WPBakery Page Builder. Naturally, ACF Extended is the most popular extension used with ACF, followed by Gravity Forms, Yoast SEO, and ACF Better Search.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nRespondents demonstrated high confidence in those maintaining the plugin, as 98% of them are comfortable updating ACF to the latest version. They are also confident in continuing to build on top of WordPress, as 91% of survey participants said they are likely to continue with the platform. For a more detailed look at the questions and responses, check out the 2023 annual survey results on the ACF website.", "date_published": "2023-09-08T13:27:52-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-08T13:27:54-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ACF-logo.jpg", "tags": [ "acf", "News", "Plugins" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148577", "url": "https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-16-6-introduces-block-hooks-improvements-to-toolbars-on-nested-blocks", "title": "Gutenberg 16.6 Introduces Block Hooks, Improvements to Toolbars on Nested Blocks", "content_html": "\n

Gutenberg 16.6 is available with progress on a feature that was formerly called auto-inserting blocks but has now been renamed to block hooks.

\n\n\n\n

In a previous release (16.4), Gutenberg introduced auto-inserting blocks as an experimental feature that allows plugin developers to specify a location in which the block will be automatically inserted, such as before or after a template. Users can then reposition the blocks after insertion using the editor tools.

\n\n\n\n

Gutenberg lead architect Matias Ventura proposed renaming the feature to block hooks to help developers understand how they work.

\n\n\n\n

“I’ve seen anecdotal feedback that\u00a0autoInsert\u00a0is not the clearest of descriptions,” Ventura said. “I’d like to propose renaming to the more familiar\u00a0hooks\u00a0terminology\u2014and ‘block hooks’ in more general terms\u2014to help folks understand the mechanics and purpose more rapidly.”

\n\n\n\n

This release also adds an inspector panel for block hooks, tentatively named “Plugins,” that displays blocks available for auto-insertion. It includes toggles to insert or remove them. The updated version of the feature also includes block icons (not shown below) to help differentiate the toggles.

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\n\n\n\n
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image source: Gutenberg repository PR #52969
\n\n\n\n

Gutenberg 16.6 brings improvements to toolbars on nested blocks, where the toolbar now stays attached to the parent block. This change is part of a broader effort to improve nested block experiences. Previously, the toolbar would move around when clicking inside the nested blocks, but this change makes it stay in place for a less chaotic editing experience. The updated toolbar behavior has been rolled out to Navigation, List, and Quote blocks so far.

\n\n\n\n
video credit: Gutenberg GitHub repository PR #53699
\n\n\n\n

This release includes a new keyboard shortcut for duplicating blocks within the List View: (CMD+Shift+d). It enables users to do more from the keyboard while navigating around the List View, instead of having to jump back into the block settings menu or editor canvas. Users can now click twice on the selected (or focused) block or multiple blocks to quickly duplicate them all in one go.

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\n
video credit: Gutenberg GitHub repository PR #53559
\n\n\n\n

These highlighted features and more will be landing in the upcoming WordPress 6.4 release. Check out the Gutenberg 16.6 release post for the full list of new features, enhancements, bug fixes, and improvements to performance and code quality.

\n", "content_text": "Gutenberg 16.6 is available with progress on a feature that was formerly called auto-inserting blocks but has now been renamed to block hooks. \n\n\n\nIn a previous release (16.4), Gutenberg introduced auto-inserting blocks as an experimental feature that allows plugin developers to specify a location in which the block will be automatically inserted, such as before or after a template. Users can then reposition the blocks after insertion using the editor tools.\n\n\n\nGutenberg lead architect Matias Ventura proposed renaming the feature to block hooks to help developers understand how they work. \n\n\n\n“I’ve seen anecdotal feedback that\u00a0autoInsert\u00a0is not the clearest of descriptions,” Ventura said. “I’d like to propose renaming to the more familiar\u00a0hooks\u00a0terminology\u2014and ‘block hooks’ in more general terms\u2014to help folks understand the mechanics and purpose more rapidly.”\n\n\n\nThis release also adds an inspector panel for block hooks, tentatively named “Plugins,” that displays blocks available for auto-insertion. It includes toggles to insert or remove them. The updated version of the feature also includes block icons (not shown below) to help differentiate the toggles. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nimage source: Gutenberg repository PR #52969\n\n\n\nGutenberg 16.6 brings improvements to toolbars on nested blocks, where the toolbar now stays attached to the parent block. This change is part of a broader effort to improve nested block experiences. Previously, the toolbar would move around when clicking inside the nested blocks, but this change makes it stay in place for a less chaotic editing experience. The updated toolbar behavior has been rolled out to Navigation, List, and Quote blocks so far.\n\n\n\nvideo credit: Gutenberg GitHub repository PR #53699\n\n\n\nThis release includes a new keyboard shortcut for duplicating blocks within the List View: (CMD+Shift+d). It enables users to do more from the keyboard while navigating around the List View, instead of having to jump back into the block settings menu or editor canvas. Users can now click twice on the selected (or focused) block or multiple blocks to quickly duplicate them all in one go.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nvideo credit: Gutenberg GitHub repository PR #53559\n\n\n\nThese highlighted features and more will be landing in the upcoming WordPress 6.4 release. Check out the Gutenberg 16.6 release post for the full list of new features, enhancements, bug fixes, and improvements to performance and code quality.", "date_published": "2023-09-07T22:59:03-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-07T22:59:50-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/324623728b0e5ab87.20316826-2048x1152-1.jpeg", "tags": [ "News" ], "attachments": [ { "url": "https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/260811408-8ad934d1-043c-4c04-bc13-9bb2256bde6a.mp4", "mime_type": "video/mp4", "size_in_bytes": 689449 }, { "url": "https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/260364980-c37919e5-3b86-4ffe-8039-58d2ae590ed5.mp4", "mime_type": "video/mp4", "size_in_bytes": 1269942 } ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148575", "url": "https://wptavern.com/godaddy-retires-media-temple-brand", "title": "GoDaddy Retires Media Temple Brand", "content_html": "\n

Media Temple (MT) is closing its doors after 24 years in the hosting industry, with the brand now retired and customers fully migrated to GoDaddy. In 2013, GoDaddy acquired MT “to win the hearts and minds of developers,” as then-CEO Blake Irving told VentureBeat at the time. When it was purchased, the highly regarded brand was focusing on advanced technical services\u00a0that GoDaddy had not yet adapted, and the plan was to have MT operate independently with no changes for employees or customers.

\n\n\n\n
\n

Thanks for allowing us to serve you for 24 years. The time has come to say goodbye. We will miss you. Keep building amazing things!

— Media Temple (@mediatemple) September 5, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

The year following the acquisition, Media Temple launched its managed WordPress hosting product, joining the ranks of Flywheel, Page.ly, WordPress.com, WP Engine, and a handful of other companies that were working to elevate the hosting experience for WordPress users.

\n\n\n\n

In December 2022, MT announced it would be retiring the Media Temple brand and transitioning accounts to GoDaddy, while subtly acknowledging the sentimental place MT holds in many of its customers’ hearts:

\n\n\n\n
\n

Since joining GoDaddy, we worked hand-in-hand with them to incorporate the best of Media Temple into offerings, including improving GoDaddy\u2019s customer experience and leveraging Media Temple\u2019s unique expertise on what it truly means to run a world-class hosting organization. If you closely examine GoDaddy\u2019s hosting offerings, you will find Media Temple\u2019s fingerprints all around. From specialized teams who deal with complex hosting issues to programs like GoDaddy Pro specifically targeting creatives, Media Temple made its mark on GoDaddy.

\n
\n\n\n\n

Fans bid the brand farewell on Twitter, as its retirement marks the end of a chapter in web hosting history.

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\n

Basically the entire design community was sponsored by Media Temple back in the day.

I can\u2019t imagine a more omnipresent brand at the time. https://t.co/mmhdxEIHVy

— Josh Pigford (@Shpigford) September 6, 2023
\n
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\n

When I got started circa 2003, it felt like every respected web designer was hosted by Media Temple.

They made being hosted by them feel cooler (really) than anywhere else. Geniuses.

I was a (mt) customer from 2007\u20132020 until @laravelforge made deploying magnitudes easier. https://t.co/HyhBxz5PZs

— Brendan Falkowski (@Falkowski) September 6, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n
\n

Woah. Somehow Media Temple always seemed so cool, the first \u201caspirational\u201d software in a way, where you\u2019d move when your blog was successful.

End of an era. https://t.co/tJobBqEPQf

— Matthew Guay (@maguay) September 6, 2023
\n
\n\n\n\n

In February 2023, Media Temple began migrating accounts to GoDaddy, with no action required from customers. Many of the products and services were already fulfilled through GoDaddy, decreasing the number needing to be migrated.

\n\n\n\n

Now that the process is complete, the brand will discontinue operations and move current resources into supporting customers inside GoDaddy. The company assured former MT customers that they will retain their current products and pricing for equivalent products with access to more tools.

\n", "content_text": "Media Temple (MT) is closing its doors after 24 years in the hosting industry, with the brand now retired and customers fully migrated to GoDaddy. In 2013, GoDaddy acquired MT “to win the hearts and minds of developers,” as then-CEO Blake Irving told VentureBeat at the time. When it was purchased, the highly regarded brand was focusing on advanced technical services\u00a0that GoDaddy had not yet adapted, and the plan was to have MT operate independently with no changes for employees or customers.\n\n\n\n\nThanks for allowing us to serve you for 24 years. The time has come to say goodbye. We will miss you. Keep building amazing things!— Media Temple (@mediatemple) September 5, 2023\n\n\n\n\nThe year following the acquisition, Media Temple launched its managed WordPress hosting product, joining the ranks of Flywheel, Page.ly, WordPress.com, WP Engine, and a handful of other companies that were working to elevate the hosting experience for WordPress users.\n\n\n\nIn December 2022, MT announced it would be retiring the Media Temple brand and transitioning accounts to GoDaddy, while subtly acknowledging the sentimental place MT holds in many of its customers’ hearts:\n\n\n\n\nSince joining GoDaddy, we worked hand-in-hand with them to incorporate the best of Media Temple into offerings, including improving GoDaddy\u2019s customer experience and leveraging Media Temple\u2019s unique expertise on what it truly means to run a world-class hosting organization. If you closely examine GoDaddy\u2019s hosting offerings, you will find Media Temple\u2019s fingerprints all around. From specialized teams who deal with complex hosting issues to programs like GoDaddy Pro specifically targeting creatives, Media Temple made its mark on GoDaddy.\n\n\n\n\nFans bid the brand farewell on Twitter, as its retirement marks the end of a chapter in web hosting history.\n\n\n\n\nBasically the entire design community was sponsored by Media Temple back in the day.I can\u2019t imagine a more omnipresent brand at the time. https://t.co/mmhdxEIHVy— Josh Pigford (@Shpigford) September 6, 2023\n\n\n\n\n\nWhen I got started circa 2003, it felt like every respected web designer was hosted by Media Temple.They made being hosted by them feel cooler (really) than anywhere else. Geniuses.I was a (mt) customer from 2007\u20132020 until @laravelforge made deploying magnitudes easier. https://t.co/HyhBxz5PZs— Brendan Falkowski (@Falkowski) September 6, 2023\n\n\n\n\n\nWoah. Somehow Media Temple always seemed so cool, the first \u201caspirational\u201d software in a way, where you\u2019d move when your blog was successful.End of an era. https://t.co/tJobBqEPQf— Matthew Guay (@maguay) September 6, 2023\n\n\n\n\nIn February 2023, Media Temple began migrating accounts to GoDaddy, with no action required from customers. Many of the products and services were already fulfilled through GoDaddy, decreasing the number needing to be migrated. \n\n\n\nNow that the process is complete, the brand will discontinue operations and move current resources into supporting customers inside GoDaddy. The company assured former MT customers that they will retain their current products and pricing for equivalent products with access to more tools.", "date_published": "2023-09-06T23:36:11-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-06T23:36:13-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screen-Shot-2023-09-06-at-11.28.35-PM.png", "tags": [ "hosting", "media temple", "News" ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=148568", "url": "https://wptavern.com/podcast/89-scott-kingsley-clark-on-why-the-time-is-right-for-the-fields-api", "title": "#89 \u2013 Scott Kingsley Clark on Why the Time Is Right for the Fields API", "content_html": "\n
Transcript
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[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

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Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, why the time might be right for the Fields API.

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If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

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If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox. And use the form there.

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So on the podcast today, we have Scott Kingsley, Clark.

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Scott is a WordPress developer who has been working with WordPress since 2007. He’s well-known for his work on the Pods Framework, a popular content and custom fields plugin.

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Scott’s goal is to find ways to enhance the WordPress experience, particularly in terms of working with different types of data. He’s currently involved in the WordPress Fields API project, which aims to provide a better solution for developers looking to wrangle their data. And that is the focus of the podcast today. As you’ll hear, Scott is determined to contribute to the continual growth and improvement of WordPress, and to make the Fields API a reality.

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Scott came from a background using Drupal, which is an alternative CMS. When he first ventured into WordPress, he found certain features were lacking. Things which were baked into Drupal Core were not available in WordPress, a notable example being custom fields.

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We know that WordPress has a myriad of plugins, which can take on the burden of creating custom fields, but Scott has concerns about the interoperability of these plugins, and he wants to create a more solid structure within WordPress itself. Wouldn’t it be nice if there were ways for developers to create custom field plugins so that you weren’t locked into one or the other. Scott imagines a future in which you could move from ACF, Metabox Toolset and more. A future built on top of the Fields API.

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Throughout the conversation, scott talks about his passion for incorporating the block editor, React and other technologies into WordPress. He shares insights on controlling block settings, making them extensible through PHP.

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You might know Scott from his work on the popular Pods Framework plugin. This plugin allows users to create custom content types and fields in WordPress, and certainly speaks to his credentials in trying to push the Fields API project forward.

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We talk about what the Fields API might become. The aim is to simplify the process of working with custom fields and content types in WordPress. With the Fields API, Scott hopes to unify the different methods and APIs for managing custom fields, making it easier for developers and non-developers alike to add their fields to different screens within WordPress.

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It’s a complicated undertaking and we get into some of the areas of WordPress, which might benefit from his work. Scott sheds light on the challenges faced during the development of the Fields API, the need for shared storage standards among plugins, and the potential for better integration with the WordPress Admin UI.

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Towards the end of the podcast we talk about the future of the Fields API project, and how gaining support from people in the WordPress community will be crucial to its success.

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If you’re interested in how WordPress can be used as a fully featured CMS, this podcast is for you.

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If you want to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

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And so without further delay, I bring you Scott Kingsley Clark.

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I am joined on the podcast today by Scott Kingsley Clark. Hello Scott.

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[00:04:53] Scott Kingsley Clark: Hey Nathan, how’s it going?

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[00:04:55] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah really good. Thank you for joining us on the podcast today. We’re going to get into the weeds a little bit with WordPress code and all sorts of things. We haven’t had one of these episodes for a little while so this will be nice and refreshing.

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Scott, given that we’re going to be talking about something technical I suppose it would be a good thing right at the beginning to learn about your technical expertise. The various different projects that you’ve touched in the WordPress space during the time that you’ve been in that. So just yeah a little moment for you to offer up your bio really. So over to you.

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[00:05:24] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well sure. I started working with WordPress in about 2007 or 8. I used it briefly once before with a one click install from cPanel before that, but I didn’t really like it at the time. And I was doing many other things.

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But ever since that point I have been really involved with trying to make WordPress the best that it can be. And that has evolved through plugin development. One of the plugins I’m more known for is the Pods Framework. And that is a content type, a custom field plugin for WordPress. But I’ve also tried to find ways to make it easier for other developers to build things without needing a plugin. Because a plugin like Pods existed before custom post types had a real API.

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But now that it has a real API you don’t really need a plugin like Pods to just make a custom post type. And the goal for me is, I’d love to see a better way to work with those types of objects inside of WordPress that have very different APIs, or in some cases no API at all. You just have to output your own markup and hook into some hooks. And it’s not really great.

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Especially in this day where we have everything exposed to the Rest APIs. And you want to build really cool blocks, but you can’t leverage some data from different structures that don’t exist. So that’s where I’d love to find ways for WordPress to level up.

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In this particular project of mine, is the WordPress Fields API. There is a group of us who have kind of rebooted it, but it existed in 2000 and, I want to say 14, 15, 16, 2017, all through those years. And we had made some progress, made a few different proposals and it just got stuck up in the process of getting the block editor and Rest API.

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And there was just so many more bigger features that were getting the priority, and it kind of burned me out. And I didn’t find anyone else to carry the torch so it just went away. And just the start of this year we started up again.

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[00:07:30] Nathan Wrigley: What was the reason that it went away? You mentioned there that there were a whole variety of different things going on at the same time. So was it that the community’s focus just seemed to be more interested on other things? And so despite the fact that you were putting in the time, and you obviously just described that it burnt you out a little bit. There just wasn’t enough interest because attention was being put elsewhere.

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[00:07:53] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right. Well Fields API owes so much to WebDevStudios and 10up who offered a lot of my time on the clock. They donated my time towards developing the Fields API and pushing it forward. And at 10up we were really, really close. We got the closest we had been at that point because at 10up we had a really awesome contributor for WordPress. A core committer, Helen Hou-Sandi.

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And that got us really close, but I think it just was that I was practically speaking for Fields API and saying, we should do this, we should do that, and it just wasn’t hitting. It wasn’t hitting right for them. Or the people who were involved in making decisions on what was going to make it, or what was going to get the attention or whatever, just didn’t feel it yet.

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And I can understand that. I mean there’s so much that everyone is trying to do for each release. And I kind of assumed that if I built as much as possible and showed it as a really thoroughly working prototype with tests and everything else. And I just handed it to them and said hey here it is. Can you help me make this part of WordPress Core? Do you have any feedback? And when I did that I guess the biggest problem was I hadn’t really involved all those same voices at that point prior to actually doing the development of it.

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So I had some input from a few different core contributors and committers and such. But as soon as I pushed out that final proposal in 2017 we got so many detractors and people saying, oh we should have done this differently or, why is it like this? And I would have done it this way. And it kind of did not get the consensus that I was needing for it to gain further traction. So we’ve kind of approached it differently in this reboot.

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[00:09:42] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, right. So you did a lot of the work, you put it out there but the feedback that came back didn’t exactly encourage you, let’s put it that way. There were people who just would rather it had been done in their way. I’m guessing that that’s because there are loads of different ways that this type of problem has been tackled I guess on a more or less on a per plugin basis. There’s probably hundreds of plugins out there that do something similar. They do it their way. And so they presumably think that their way is the way that it should be done.

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[00:10:15] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right. I mean there’s so many plugins like ACF and Pods and Toolset, so many more at comparewp.org slash cck. Which is like a really cool comparison list of all these different types of plugins. But there’s so many that each one has their own baked in API for managing fields in WordPress.

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And it’s just bonkers that everyone has to build all these APIs, and in the end they’re almost it’s forcing the need of having to build their own APIs because they won’t accept anything else other than the one that they built. And I think that it’s tricky with developers and egos and everything else. We all have to kind of find a way to, you know, what is the minimum bare essentials API that we could build for this and find a consensus on that.

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[00:11:01] Nathan Wrigley: So I guess this time around the community involvement is going to be there. You’re going to do this much more in the open. So that as you are going along presumably ideas are chipped in, rather than it just being one great big release at the end where everybody gets to either agree or disagree.

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[00:11:18] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right yeah. We tried to do that before but I think the challenge was we moved so quickly. I built so much code and I had made a specification ahead of time. But really the time wasn’t spent in the research specification side to get a consensus at that point, with not just the people who were involved but everyone else. Making sure everyone else had a moment to do that.

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I guess when people just look at a specification like oh, I’ll just look at it later on when he has something for me to look at. And so it just gets delayed. And I’m hoping that this time I can find ways to intuitively make it so people will actively and proactively be part of that process and give feedback

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[00:12:01] Nathan Wrigley: So given that you’ve restarted it, what reinvigorated it for you? Where did your curiosity for something that has been dormant for quite a number of years now. What on earth was it that brought you back to seeing this as a worthwhile use of your time?

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[00:12:16] Scott Kingsley Clark: Since 2017 I’ve had kind of dark years in my contributing to WordPress Core, and just feeling like, well I can’t get anything big done so maybe I shouldn’t spend my time on it. And just the amount of time I’d spent on it had taken away from my full time work and my side projects.

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I’m just like, well if I’m going to do this I really need it to be something I believe in. And up until the start of the year I just didn’t really feel like it was going to be possible. And then Joe Dolson, from the accessibility team was talking about how their team was looking at trying to revitalize the settings screens.

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And one of the biggest challenges were their setting screens are hard coded in a lot of ways. And there’s not really an easy way to just like, here let’s try out this different interface. Let’s try this interface, this markup. We’ll change this markup here. And it’s very difficult to produce different markup inside of WordPress Core right now for a lot of screens really.

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And more importantly for them, it’s not even using the Settings API the same way as most people are building things with the Settings API. And they hooked up with me because Courtney Robertson, a really awesome Dev Rel person, has just connected me with Joe at the end of last year I believe. And we just started talking about it, like hey this would be really cool if we had this Fields API stuff that you were thinking about before.

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And I was like well I don’t know. And then as they discussed it with really the focus on accessibility I was like, you know what accessibility is such a big priority to me that I think it kind of overrides my initial thoughts about well I don’t know if I can get this into Core. Because I thoroughly believe in spending more time on accessibility for lots of different plugins. Especially for WordPress Core and the block editor. And if I can help push that forward I feel like I’ve done something better with my time.

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And at that point I was like yeah I’m in. We’ll focus on the Settings API, just on that. And we’re not going to like build all the different screens and API prototype that we had done before. Until we get the Settings API, let’s focus all of our energy on doing that for the Settings API itself.

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[00:14:26] Nathan Wrigley: So that all kicked off again at the beginning of this year, 2023. And I’m staring at a page on the Make WordPress Core blog, which you wrote right at the beginning of the year, january the 9th. You’ve posted a video there of you, and I think the four other people on the call. So right at the very start of this year, five people involved at the very least.

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How has the project been growing? Has it caught the attention in the way that you’d hoped? Have there been people coming along to assist? One of the enterprises of this podcast episode is obviously to swell the number of people, but it would be quite nice to know how it’s going just prior to that.

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[00:15:04] Scott Kingsley Clark: So as with a lot of these kinds of initiatives it all depends on the time you put in, as someone who has the vision and leads it. And my time on the Fields API had been kind of reduced, just right after this. The economy started having some challenges in the tech space, and job security was a concern in a lot of areas for a lot of people, especially me.

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And so I didn’t have as much free time to focus on that. I was focused on my work, keeping my head down and making sure I was doing all my things. And I just didn’t have enough headspace for it. But I knew that if I could really spend a great deal of time this summer on the Fields API, getting it prepared, getting it to the next phase, so that we have something solid. By the time it is time for Community Summit contributor day for WordCamp US we have a solid chance.

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And then something came out of nowhere. On the Make WordPress dot org core, blog I saw a post come through. And I’ve been watching posts there all the time and sometimes I’ll provide feedback. But this one was unique. This one was talking about revamping the Admin UI. And now I’m getting all sorts of excited and I’m thinking to myself, oh this is my time.

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Like, if I can get the Admin UI perspective on the Fields API, I think this could even help us further, pushing this forward. Because if you want to approach redoing the Admin UI you have to expose these kinds of fields and forms and screens in a way that is more dynamic than it is right now. And that is a sweet spot for the Fields API.

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So I posted on that blog post. I asked Matias, hey can we have Fields API? Please, please, please be part of this conversation. I would love to talk to you more about it. And so we’re probably going to talk about it at WordCamp US, some time during that week. And my hope is we’ll get this really pushed further. Because it takes buy in from the vocal people in WordPress. And I think I’m beginning to see more buy in. And that is really a positive thing for me.

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[00:17:12] Nathan Wrigley: Sounds like a really nice bit of serendipity there. Couple of things happened, and the chance of the Admin UI being overhauled kind of sits perfectly doesn’t it. That really would be the moment.

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It is a dramatic change that’s being proposed. And so I guess if you’re going to go all in on changing the Admin UI, well now would be the time to get all of the fields work done as well.

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It just occurs to me that given the audience that listen to this podcast, there’s a fair smattering of developers no doubt. But also there’s people who are just into WordPress. You know, it’s a hobby. They perhaps do it as a side gig or something.

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So maybe we should rewind and do some explanations about what on earth an API for fields would even do. Why is it even needed? I’m suspecting that many people log in to their WordPress website, certainly since the advent of Gutenberg. And more or less everything that they want to do, publish posts, schedule posts, that’s possibly the extent of it all. It functions.

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So I’m imagining there’s a proportion of people listening to this going, well, what even would this be needed for? Describe a scenario where this would be useful. So, let’s cover that out. What is the Fields API? How would it change what WordPress does?

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[00:18:25] Scott Kingsley Clark: Sure. So let me preface my answer with, there’s a reason why there’s so many plugins out there doing content types and custom fields. There’s a reason why Advanced Custom Fields has millions of active installs. And tons of people have paid for the pro premium versions of these kinds of plugins.

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Now I’ll get into the real answer. This is an incredibly complicated dance. Whenever you want to go add a custom field to a post, or let’s say you’re building a site, a hobby site. I use the book analogy a lot, but let’s talk about music, because I love music too.

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So you’re setting up a site for your music and maybe you’re an artist, a solo artist or a band. And you’re trying to set up a list of albums. And so you’re like well, how do I add albums? You could add that in the block editor. No problem, no issues there. But then what if you wanted to make it more data oriented.

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So if you wanted to do that you’d have to go register a custom post type for album, for instance. Maybe a custom post type for tracks, if you want to relate them to albums in some way. And maybe a custom post type for other things. Maybe custom taxonomies for other items that you want. But the challenge there is not really in the content type. It’s in the custom fields you want to add to that.

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Inside of WordPress, I counted it up recently, there’s somewhere between 16 to 17 different APIs and hooks that are totally different from each other, to add custom fields or settings to different areas on all the different screens, and different objects inside of WordPress. That is a lot. So adding a custom field means you have to go add an action inside of PHP.

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First of all you have to know PHP and kind of know where to put it. Second of all you have to then go add action to add a meta box. Then you have to add your code to render all of your fields markup. So you have to add your HTML in there and have it do that. Then you have to add an action to handle the saving.

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And then at that point you’re probably going to be looking at doing more things for taxonomies possibly. So you have to work with another action there. You have to add things there and it doesn’t look great. So then you have to add more markup. And it’s a lot for someone who just wants to build.

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So you just mentioned that there’s a number of developers listening to this right now. But there’s a lot of people who aren’t really considering themselves developers. They’re just people building sites and they don’t really have time to dig into the code. Or they don’t want to tell their client they can do this if they can’t build it custom, they would have to pay someone else to do that. And they want to avoid that cost. So they’re going to use one of these off the shelf plugins, like Advanced Custom Fields.

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Why would you spend five hours building your albums and tracks and things like that in PHP? The trial and error and figuring out the markup and, why is this not working? And then coming back to it later on and spending another few hours trying to debug something that happens. And then displaying it all on the front end. Why spend all that time when you can just install a plugin and just click a few buttons? And boom, you have another post type and then you have your fields already displayed. And by the way they look really nice. Why would you spend that time?

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So this is more of a feature, or more of a project geared towards developers so that it makes them spend less time on their side of things. And it unifies all 16, 17 of these methods and APIs to work with all these different screens.

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But what the end result would be is anyone using WordPress could then be using a plugin, or potentially use code snippets very easily without having to have a whole lot of knowledge. And be able to add a field to different screens without a whole lot of code, or whole lot of PHP experience. And these types of plugins like ACF, and Pods, and Toolset and various others, they could then leverage the Fields API if they’re supporting that WordPress version that includes it. They could leverage this Fields API in a way that reduces the code that they actually have to have inside their own plugins.

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And at the same time that makes it so WordPress itself, the REST APIs, everything that talks with the Fields API, then knows about the structures you’re registering.

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It’s a hand in hand, win-win scenario for end users who benefit from the stability, and the flexibility, and extensibility of those APIs in place. And developers who want to be able to utilize those things.

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[00:22:54] Nathan Wrigley: Have you any experience with other CMSs? We could probably list off half a dozen or more other CMSs. But certainly some that I have used in the past, a lot of these kind of features are baked into the core product. So the ability to add custom fields to, well it may not be called a custom post type over on that particular platform but you get the idea. It is already built in, if you like.

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You mentioned that you want to have this pushed to Core. Do you see that other CMSs are potentially stealing a march on WordPress? WordPress has traditionally been very good at giving 80% of the people what they want. So there is some argument as to whether or not some things should be added or some shouldn’t. But do you feel its been lacking this? And really a lot of other rival CMSs have been doing this for years.

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[00:23:42] Scott Kingsley Clark: That’s a very good point. The plugin Pods was one of the first ones that did custom content types and custom fields for WordPress in a way that mimicked, and this is in 2008, the end of 2008. It mimicked Drupal at the time.

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Drupal has a major feature called, what they called CCK, which was Content Construction Kit. I think that was what it was.

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And so what value that API had for Drupal was that it would let you do the kinds of things you’re seeing be possible with plugins like Metabox or whatever else, you can use code, and ACF to register your groups and fields, and you can use code to register custom post types.

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So you don’t have to use the UIs. You don’t have to provide a bunch of JSON. You can just register those things through PHP. And Drupal has had this for many, many years. It’s coming up on almost 20 years now that it’s had a feature like CCK. And that is not really that Drupal is ahead of WordPress, it’s that WordPress is severely behind. Because it hasn’t really prioritized these kinds of unifying APIs for its screens. I mean obviously WordPress hasn’t.

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If you look at it, it really hasn’t changed a whole lot until block editor. The interfaces and screens really kind of have been what they are. The structure of where things are has been mostly the same outside the block editor.

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Multisite was a big thing, but the screens themselves they really haven’t changed a whole lot. And I think that is just because we’ve been focused as a project on building features and not looking back at what we’ve done, and finding a better way to represent that. A project like the Admin UI revamp, or even accessibility revamp, could give us that time to kind of be introspective. What are we doing with these screens, and how do we make these things better?

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And backward compatibility doesn’t have to be a hindrance in the Fields API because it can be backward compatible too. It’s just if you want to register the new way you can do that and that is the officially the way that we recommend you do it. It’s just, it works. I really hope that more people see things like Drupal, and there’s so many other plugins, or so many other CMSs out there that have their own kind of CCK situations.

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Because it’s just, you’re building a CMS? Well you’re not going to want to do that the way the WordPress did it way back when. No one’s going to want to do that on purpose. And I think that they all already have their own forms and Fields API processing abilities, because that’s the bare minimum. As a developer, when you’re building something like this you build that. You don’t build all the markup and everything hard coded anymore.

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[00:26:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I was a big fan of Drupal, and I used Drupal exclusively more or less for many years. My first interaction with WordPress was an endeavor to move away from Drupal for a variety of different reasons. And I do remember opening up WordPress and almost being incredulous that I couldn’t achieve some of the things that I was simply able to achieve with a vanilla install of Drupal.

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So custom fields was just trivially easy. It was there, it was baked in. And so I had this expectation, well everybody’s using WordPress it must have, you know, a similar feature set. And so, just flabbergasted that it didn’t exist.

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Of course very quickly found out exactly what you just said. That commercial and also free, there’s plenty of free options as well, Pods being one. That you had to go and find a solution for that. So rather than it being baked into core you’d go out and you’d purchase ACF or you would download Pods or whatever it may be.

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But this sort of feeling that well that’s interesting because I wonder how they’re doing that and if they’re doing it differently than the other one, so if ACF is doing it differently to how Pods is doing it, you could make that spaghetti go in any direction. How am I going to be stuck in the future? You know things that I create with Pods, is that interoperable? Could I start using ACF at a future date on the same website?

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So there’s all of that thrown into it as well. And I guess the endeavor here is to create that basic structure so that everybody can approach it and everybody can start creating these things without the reliance necessarily on a third party plugin.

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[00:28:03] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right. Like if you’re using a plugin like that and the Fields API comes out, there could be a migration thing, or exporting plugin created that exports from Pods or ACF or whatever into the Fields API structure. Much like ACF and some of these other plugins have the ability to kind of export. Maybe the biggest one is Custom Post Type UI. Where it’s just simple. Add custom post types, you add custom taxonomies and you can export that to code.

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And that code works without the plugin. So it just tells it, here is what you tell WordPress to do what you want to do here. That kind of ability to export into just a Fields API code would take your code, your plugin usage of ACF or Pods or whatever, and you could easily switch out into just pure WordPress.

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But also because if it has that ability to use the Fields API at that point you have more interoperability. So you can go between these different plugins more easily because there’s a similar structure we’re all using. And when you’re registering through Fields API you can potentially set like a source, like this is coming from ACF, or whatever you want.

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And then a Pods plugin could say oh hey I recognize you had these ACF fields, do you want to bring them over? The Fields API opens up the door because everyone’s talking the same talk. And we can all talk about things in the same conversation instead of like I need to know the ACF APIs to work with getting the fields out, and I need to know this and then that. And there’s that side.

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But there’s also the storage side. So we’re talking about the way that ACF stores their content. For repeatable fields that can be quite tricky. Flexible content, anything that has to do with data that’s not just a simple single value gets a little bit tricky depending on how you choose to store it in ACF.

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So those sorts of things are more based off of the plugin developers preference. So ACF was developed in a specific kind of point of view, for how they should store the storage. Pods is the same way, we have a specific point of view where it should be stored a certain way. Every plugin will have their own points of view. But if we can settle on the structure of the content fields, the custom fields for each of these objects, and how they’re going to be specified to WordPress, that’s really half the battle.

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Then we can start talking about, okay now that we have this common language let’s work on bringing everyone to the same storage, so anyone can switch between these different plugins and they won’t have to deal with any extra work. We could all agree on a shared set of storage, kind of specification standards really.

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[00:30:35] Nathan Wrigley: The breadth of this project feels like it could be truly enormous because there are fields in all sorts of unexpected places in WordPress. I mean you may not be thinking about them all the time but you know we’ve got post types, and terms, and comments, and settings, and users, and navigation, and the media library and all sorts of different places.

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How are you breaking it down? Is there an order in which you’re going to knock those dominoes over? Are you going for, I don’t know, probably the low hanging fruit of custom post types first, or is the intention to try and get everything done all at once? You did mention accessibility. Perhaps that’s come first because of Joe Dolson’s interactions with you.

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[00:31:17] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah. So accessibility is going to be the main driving point for us right now. So we’re focused on the Settings API. If we can get this right and potentially the goal is to get it to the point where we can actually merge it just for the Settings API. Just for the Settings API.

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We have an inside person now, inside of WordPress itself. So now we can start expanding it, and say okay now here’s the proposal to add this to the post types, and to the terms and everywhere else to be powered by the Fields API. And once you have those things powered by the Fields API, the full Admin UI revamp is becoming much more approachable for people who want to switch out the markup there.

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They don’t have to modify core as much to make it happen. They don’t have to duplicate all the code and deal with merge conflicts. It’s just so much more easier when you’re working with data structures that are defined as data structures, and not purely as markup and save handlers like they are in many areas of WordPress.

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[00:32:13] Nathan Wrigley: You’ve been doing this kind of work for years with Pods. So you know you’re incredibly familiar with this. Is there anything during your time working with Pods where you thought, I wish WordPress had this?

\n\n\n\n

So I’m just wondering if you might try to smuggle into this some unique new feature, not something which we’re already familiar with. You know post types and comments and users. Really that question might go nowhere but I just wondered if there was something innovative that you’ve got. Really I’d love to try this.

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[00:32:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: So I do have something but it’s going to be interesting to see if we can make it happen. So the way that this has been focused on has been replacing existing screens that are kind of hard coded and all that. But we haven’t really talked about, what about the block editor? What about React and all those things?

\n\n\n\n

And the cool part about that is that if you look at the screen, if you go to the block editor right now, you’re looking at editing a post and you insert a block, like let’s talk about the paragraph block or even a group block. On the right hand side, if you have it open, the inspector control sidebar there. That allows you to control what the block settings are, on margins and adding extra classes if you want to add them to the block.

\n\n\n\n

And many different blocks have many different settings. And then also you can click over and if you’re looking at the post type, or page post type you’ll see the word post or page up there and there’s a little kind of a tab, and you click that and then you are looking at the object controls.

\n\n\n\n

So this controls what is going on with the page or post like attributes for the parent, or maybe the date, or the many different things like slug and all that. So both of these areas are areas I would love, not really to sneak in, but I want to get buy in from people. I want to find a way to build these screens, these sets of fields and have them extensible through PHP.

\n\n\n\n

If we can do this in a way with the Fields API where you could register new sections and controls inside of React, it’s possible. We’re doing this right now. Pods is doing this, ACF, many other block builders are doing this with their blocks, their own blocks APIs. The way that we’re doing it right now is too much. It’s going down the same road of we’re locking ourselves in.

\n\n\n\n

I want these sections and these controls to be extensible. I want someone to be able to override stuff. I want someone to be able to add new things to them. I want to add something ahead of it or after it. I don’t want to have to know any JavaScript to be able to do the bare minimum for basic controls.

\n\n\n\n

You can still, with the Fields API even, you could still at that point do all the JavaScript or React stuff you want to build up your own custom controls, and the ways that you want them to display, and special handling for how to work with the blocks and all that. But really the bare minimum ought to be the way that we lower the bar towards developers, new people, new developers.

\n\n\n\n

But especially at this point, PHP is not getting the love it needs as an API source for WordPress, especially with a block editor. We need to expand that. I think there’s so much potential.

\n\n\n\n

[00:35:27] Nathan Wrigley: Given everything that you’ve just said, and we’ve now got a real nice full round picture of what it is that you’re trying to achieve, are there any significant roadblocks? I mean obviously hours and coding, the amount of time that it’s going to take you to do all these things, and the amount of people who jump on board the project, that’s a given. Are there any technical obstacles that are in the way that you foresee being problematic?

\n\n\n\n

[00:35:52] Scott Kingsley Clark: So before, when we built all this stuff in the earlier versions, and I just read, we actually started working on the kind of Fields API idea in 2013. That’s even earlier than I remember. That was back in Freenode, Freenode IRC stuff.

\n\n\n\n

I think one of the challenges was when we built all the different screens we had to modify WordPress Core files and override them. And as new versions of WordPress would be released we’d have to merge those changes into ours. It’s a headache to keep it up, and keep it updated for every release. And for even maintenance releases to make sure that you’re not breaking something that was changed or fixed inside of WordPress release, and having it so that my prototype should always work with latest WordPress.

\n\n\n\n

Well that’s difficult because latest WordPress is always changing. I think that’s the challenge is trying to focus not on, like we did before, we had posts, we had terms, we had settings, we had users, we had comments, we had media, we had the customizer. All those different areas were covered.

\n\n\n\n

We already had those things covered inside of the Fields API code we had before. You could use the Fields API actively to add things to those screens. But that was a lot. That was a lot to deal with. So if we focus on settings, that’s why I’m hoping this reduced focus on setting screens will reduce the amount of pain we have to deal with. Because when we’re merging things we only have to worry about just those settings screens that we’re overriding for WordPress Core. That’s it. And we don’t have to worry about all the different screens and all the different files that we’ve been overriding.

\n\n\n\n

[00:37:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah thank you for that. I mean obviously you would be very warmly welcoming anybody who has listened to this and is intrigued by what you’ve said and thinks, okay I’ve got some technical expertise that I could apply to this project. If that’s the case, where are you hanging out most with this? I’m guessing the Slack channel is probably a good place to start. But maybe there’s some other places too.

\n\n\n\n

[00:37:39] Scott Kingsley Clark: I really deeply would love to have more contributors. Anyone who can think about things in different points of view for how a Fields API should be built. Things like someone who’s involved with other plugins that do this type of thing. It’s a big plus if you’ve built a Fields API yourself for one of these plugins.

\n\n\n\n

It’s also a big thing to think about you know just someone who’s not been building those things but maybe someone coming from outside of WordPress, or someone with heavier PHP structure experience. How do we structure the Fields API? And how is that going to look?

\n\n\n\n

There’s also plenty of room for people who can help write tutorials, or help us write. I think one of my big deficiencies is having time to write up all the great text that we’re going to need for make.wordpress.org core posts about how do we describe what we’re building here, and get people involved and excited?

\n\n\n\n

What is the proposal going to look like? And how do we lay this out nicely? And those types of things would be also very helpful to have. And you can find all of our efforts inside of Slack right now. So if you go into the WordPress Slack you’ll find us in the core dash fields channel.

\n\n\n\n

We also have a GitHub that has been totally revamped from the old ones. We now have two different archive repos from the past versions that we had. And now we have this third repo that we’re using that is refreshed and ready to go. It already has some more research already in it and we’re going to start working from that repo now.

\n\n\n\n

[00:39:03] Nathan Wrigley: That’s perfect. I will make sure to link to those in the show notes. Everything that you’ve mentioned I’ll make sure that it gets a link. But it sounds like not just technical people. There’s also room for people who have skills in, I don’t know, documentation or something that you’ve described. So the door is wide open. This feels like really important work. It would be lovely to get this over the wire. To get some more buy in, and more thoughts from different community members.

\n\n\n\n

So yeah we’ll round it off there. Scott Kingsley Clark. Thank you so much for chatting to me today. I wish you all the best in getting this into Core in the, well, let’s say near future.

\n\n\n\n

[00:39:35] Scott Kingsley Clark: I really appreciate you including me and this project in your efforts here to get the word out. I can’t say how much I’m excited. I’m just extremely excited to get this finally pushed up and hopefully emerged into Core. And I am working my behind off this entire month, just to make sure that we can try to get that traction and get it across that finish line.

\n\n\n\n

[00:39:58] Nathan Wrigley: Well very much appreciated, because everything that you do and achieve will certainly make our WordPress lives a lot better. So thank you, Scott. I really appreciate it.

\n\n\n\n

[00:40:07] Scott Kingsley Clark: No problem.

\n
\n\n\n\n

On the podcast today we have Scott Kingsley Clark.

\n\n\n\n

Scott is a WordPress developer who has been working with WordPress since 2007. He is well-known for his work on the Pods Framework, a popular content and custom fields plugin. Scott’s goal is to find ways to enhance the WordPress experience, particularly in terms of working with different types of data. He is currently involved in the WordPress Fields API project, which aims to provide a better solution for developers looking to wrangle their data, and that is the focus of the podcast today. As you\u2019ll hear Scott is determined to contribute to the continual growth and improvement of WordPress and try to make the Fields API a reality.

\n\n\n\n

Scott came from a background using Drupal, which is an alternative CMS. When he first ventured into WordPress, he found certain features were lacking. Things which were baked into Drupal Core were not available in WordPress, a notable example being custom fields.

\n\n\n\n

We know that WordPress has a myriad of plugins which can take on the burden of creating custom fields, but Scott has concerns about the interoperability of these plugins, and he wants to create a more solid structure within WordPress itself. Wouldn\u2019t it be nice if there were ways for developers to create custom field plugins so that you weren\u2019t locked into one or the other? Scott imagines a future in which you could move from ACF, Metabox, Toolset and more; a future built on top of the Fields API.

\n\n\n\n

Throughout the conversation, Scott talks about his passion for incorporating the block editor, React, and other technologies into WordPress. He shares insights on controlling block settings, making them extensible through PHP.

\n\n\n\n

You might know Scott from his work on the popular Pods Framework plugin. This plugin allows users to create custom content types and fields in WordPress, and certainly speaks to his credentials in trying to push the Fields API project forward.

\n\n\n\n

We talk about what the Fields API might become. The aim is to simplify the process of working with custom fields and content types in WordPress. With the Fields API, Scott hopes to unify the different methods and APIs for managing custom fields, making it easier for developers and non-developers alike to add fields to different screens within WordPress. It\u2019s a complicated undertaking and we get into some of the areas of WordPress which might benefit from this work.

\n\n\n\n

Scott sheds light on the challenges faced during the development of Fields API, the need for shared storage standards among plugins, and the potential for better integration with the WordPress Admin UI. 

\n\n\n\n

Towards the end of the podcast we talk about the future of the Fields API project and how gaining support from people in the WordPress community will be crucial to its success.

\n\n\n\n

If you\u2019re interested in how WordPress can be used as a fully featured CMS, this podcast is for you.

\n\n\n\n

Useful links.

\n\n\n\n

Pods Framework

\n\n\n\n

REST API documentation

\n\n\n\n

Compare WP – Plugin Comparison – Content Types / Custom Fields

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WordPress Community Summit 2023

\n\n\n\n

ACF

\n\n\n\n

Meta Box

\n\n\n\n

Toolset

\n\n\n\n

Custom Post Type UI

\n", "content_text": "Transcript\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, why the time might be right for the Fields API.\n\n\n\nIf you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox. And use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Scott Kingsley, Clark.\n\n\n\nScott is a WordPress developer who has been working with WordPress since 2007. He’s well-known for his work on the Pods Framework, a popular content and custom fields plugin.\n\n\n\nScott’s goal is to find ways to enhance the WordPress experience, particularly in terms of working with different types of data. He’s currently involved in the WordPress Fields API project, which aims to provide a better solution for developers looking to wrangle their data. And that is the focus of the podcast today. As you’ll hear, Scott is determined to contribute to the continual growth and improvement of WordPress, and to make the Fields API a reality.\n\n\n\nScott came from a background using Drupal, which is an alternative CMS. When he first ventured into WordPress, he found certain features were lacking. Things which were baked into Drupal Core were not available in WordPress, a notable example being custom fields.\n\n\n\nWe know that WordPress has a myriad of plugins, which can take on the burden of creating custom fields, but Scott has concerns about the interoperability of these plugins, and he wants to create a more solid structure within WordPress itself. Wouldn’t it be nice if there were ways for developers to create custom field plugins so that you weren’t locked into one or the other. Scott imagines a future in which you could move from ACF, Metabox Toolset and more. A future built on top of the Fields API.\n\n\n\nThroughout the conversation, scott talks about his passion for incorporating the block editor, React and other technologies into WordPress. He shares insights on controlling block settings, making them extensible through PHP.\n\n\n\nYou might know Scott from his work on the popular Pods Framework plugin. This plugin allows users to create custom content types and fields in WordPress, and certainly speaks to his credentials in trying to push the Fields API project forward.\n\n\n\nWe talk about what the Fields API might become. The aim is to simplify the process of working with custom fields and content types in WordPress. With the Fields API, Scott hopes to unify the different methods and APIs for managing custom fields, making it easier for developers and non-developers alike to add their fields to different screens within WordPress.\n\n\n\nIt’s a complicated undertaking and we get into some of the areas of WordPress, which might benefit from his work. Scott sheds light on the challenges faced during the development of the Fields API, the need for shared storage standards among plugins, and the potential for better integration with the WordPress Admin UI.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of the podcast we talk about the future of the Fields API project, and how gaining support from people in the WordPress community will be crucial to its success.\n\n\n\nIf you’re interested in how WordPress can be used as a fully featured CMS, this podcast is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you want to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Scott Kingsley Clark.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast today by Scott Kingsley Clark. Hello Scott.\n\n\n\n[00:04:53] Scott Kingsley Clark: Hey Nathan, how’s it going?\n\n\n\n[00:04:55] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah really good. Thank you for joining us on the podcast today. We’re going to get into the weeds a little bit with WordPress code and all sorts of things. We haven’t had one of these episodes for a little while so this will be nice and refreshing.\n\n\n\nScott, given that we’re going to be talking about something technical I suppose it would be a good thing right at the beginning to learn about your technical expertise. The various different projects that you’ve touched in the WordPress space during the time that you’ve been in that. So just yeah a little moment for you to offer up your bio really. So over to you.\n\n\n\n[00:05:24] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well sure. I started working with WordPress in about 2007 or 8. I used it briefly once before with a one click install from cPanel before that, but I didn’t really like it at the time. And I was doing many other things.\n\n\n\nBut ever since that point I have been really involved with trying to make WordPress the best that it can be. And that has evolved through plugin development. One of the plugins I’m more known for is the Pods Framework. And that is a content type, a custom field plugin for WordPress. But I’ve also tried to find ways to make it easier for other developers to build things without needing a plugin. Because a plugin like Pods existed before custom post types had a real API.\n\n\n\nBut now that it has a real API you don’t really need a plugin like Pods to just make a custom post type. And the goal for me is, I’d love to see a better way to work with those types of objects inside of WordPress that have very different APIs, or in some cases no API at all. You just have to output your own markup and hook into some hooks. And it’s not really great.\n\n\n\nEspecially in this day where we have everything exposed to the Rest APIs. And you want to build really cool blocks, but you can’t leverage some data from different structures that don’t exist. So that’s where I’d love to find ways for WordPress to level up.\n\n\n\nIn this particular project of mine, is the WordPress Fields API. There is a group of us who have kind of rebooted it, but it existed in 2000 and, I want to say 14, 15, 16, 2017, all through those years. And we had made some progress, made a few different proposals and it just got stuck up in the process of getting the block editor and Rest API.\n\n\n\nAnd there was just so many more bigger features that were getting the priority, and it kind of burned me out. And I didn’t find anyone else to carry the torch so it just went away. And just the start of this year we started up again.\n\n\n\n[00:07:30] Nathan Wrigley: What was the reason that it went away? You mentioned there that there were a whole variety of different things going on at the same time. So was it that the community’s focus just seemed to be more interested on other things? And so despite the fact that you were putting in the time, and you obviously just described that it burnt you out a little bit. There just wasn’t enough interest because attention was being put elsewhere.\n\n\n\n[00:07:53] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right. Well Fields API owes so much to WebDevStudios and 10up who offered a lot of my time on the clock. They donated my time towards developing the Fields API and pushing it forward. And at 10up we were really, really close. We got the closest we had been at that point because at 10up we had a really awesome contributor for WordPress. A core committer, Helen Hou-Sandi.\n\n\n\nAnd that got us really close, but I think it just was that I was practically speaking for Fields API and saying, we should do this, we should do that, and it just wasn’t hitting. It wasn’t hitting right for them. Or the people who were involved in making decisions on what was going to make it, or what was going to get the attention or whatever, just didn’t feel it yet.\n\n\n\nAnd I can understand that. I mean there’s so much that everyone is trying to do for each release. And I kind of assumed that if I built as much as possible and showed it as a really thoroughly working prototype with tests and everything else. And I just handed it to them and said hey here it is. Can you help me make this part of WordPress Core? Do you have any feedback? And when I did that I guess the biggest problem was I hadn’t really involved all those same voices at that point prior to actually doing the development of it.\n\n\n\nSo I had some input from a few different core contributors and committers and such. But as soon as I pushed out that final proposal in 2017 we got so many detractors and people saying, oh we should have done this differently or, why is it like this? And I would have done it this way. And it kind of did not get the consensus that I was needing for it to gain further traction. So we’ve kind of approached it differently in this reboot.\n\n\n\n[00:09:42] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, right. So you did a lot of the work, you put it out there but the feedback that came back didn’t exactly encourage you, let’s put it that way. There were people who just would rather it had been done in their way. I’m guessing that that’s because there are loads of different ways that this type of problem has been tackled I guess on a more or less on a per plugin basis. There’s probably hundreds of plugins out there that do something similar. They do it their way. And so they presumably think that their way is the way that it should be done.\n\n\n\n[00:10:15] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right. I mean there’s so many plugins like ACF and Pods and Toolset, so many more at comparewp.org slash cck. Which is like a really cool comparison list of all these different types of plugins. But there’s so many that each one has their own baked in API for managing fields in WordPress.\n\n\n\nAnd it’s just bonkers that everyone has to build all these APIs, and in the end they’re almost it’s forcing the need of having to build their own APIs because they won’t accept anything else other than the one that they built. And I think that it’s tricky with developers and egos and everything else. We all have to kind of find a way to, you know, what is the minimum bare essentials API that we could build for this and find a consensus on that.\n\n\n\n[00:11:01] Nathan Wrigley: So I guess this time around the community involvement is going to be there. You’re going to do this much more in the open. So that as you are going along presumably ideas are chipped in, rather than it just being one great big release at the end where everybody gets to either agree or disagree.\n\n\n\n[00:11:18] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right yeah. We tried to do that before but I think the challenge was we moved so quickly. I built so much code and I had made a specification ahead of time. But really the time wasn’t spent in the research specification side to get a consensus at that point, with not just the people who were involved but everyone else. Making sure everyone else had a moment to do that.\n\n\n\nI guess when people just look at a specification like oh, I’ll just look at it later on when he has something for me to look at. And so it just gets delayed. And I’m hoping that this time I can find ways to intuitively make it so people will actively and proactively be part of that process and give feedback\n\n\n\n[00:12:01] Nathan Wrigley: So given that you’ve restarted it, what reinvigorated it for you? Where did your curiosity for something that has been dormant for quite a number of years now. What on earth was it that brought you back to seeing this as a worthwhile use of your time?\n\n\n\n[00:12:16] Scott Kingsley Clark: Since 2017 I’ve had kind of dark years in my contributing to WordPress Core, and just feeling like, well I can’t get anything big done so maybe I shouldn’t spend my time on it. And just the amount of time I’d spent on it had taken away from my full time work and my side projects.\n\n\n\nI’m just like, well if I’m going to do this I really need it to be something I believe in. And up until the start of the year I just didn’t really feel like it was going to be possible. And then Joe Dolson, from the accessibility team was talking about how their team was looking at trying to revitalize the settings screens.\n\n\n\nAnd one of the biggest challenges were their setting screens are hard coded in a lot of ways. And there’s not really an easy way to just like, here let’s try out this different interface. Let’s try this interface, this markup. We’ll change this markup here. And it’s very difficult to produce different markup inside of WordPress Core right now for a lot of screens really.\n\n\n\nAnd more importantly for them, it’s not even using the Settings API the same way as most people are building things with the Settings API. And they hooked up with me because Courtney Robertson, a really awesome Dev Rel person, has just connected me with Joe at the end of last year I believe. And we just started talking about it, like hey this would be really cool if we had this Fields API stuff that you were thinking about before.\n\n\n\nAnd I was like well I don’t know. And then as they discussed it with really the focus on accessibility I was like, you know what accessibility is such a big priority to me that I think it kind of overrides my initial thoughts about well I don’t know if I can get this into Core. Because I thoroughly believe in spending more time on accessibility for lots of different plugins. Especially for WordPress Core and the block editor. And if I can help push that forward I feel like I’ve done something better with my time.\n\n\n\nAnd at that point I was like yeah I’m in. We’ll focus on the Settings API, just on that. And we’re not going to like build all the different screens and API prototype that we had done before. Until we get the Settings API, let’s focus all of our energy on doing that for the Settings API itself.\n\n\n\n[00:14:26] Nathan Wrigley: So that all kicked off again at the beginning of this year, 2023. And I’m staring at a page on the Make WordPress Core blog, which you wrote right at the beginning of the year, january the 9th. You’ve posted a video there of you, and I think the four other people on the call. So right at the very start of this year, five people involved at the very least.\n\n\n\nHow has the project been growing? Has it caught the attention in the way that you’d hoped? Have there been people coming along to assist? One of the enterprises of this podcast episode is obviously to swell the number of people, but it would be quite nice to know how it’s going just prior to that.\n\n\n\n[00:15:04] Scott Kingsley Clark: So as with a lot of these kinds of initiatives it all depends on the time you put in, as someone who has the vision and leads it. And my time on the Fields API had been kind of reduced, just right after this. The economy started having some challenges in the tech space, and job security was a concern in a lot of areas for a lot of people, especially me.\n\n\n\nAnd so I didn’t have as much free time to focus on that. I was focused on my work, keeping my head down and making sure I was doing all my things. And I just didn’t have enough headspace for it. But I knew that if I could really spend a great deal of time this summer on the Fields API, getting it prepared, getting it to the next phase, so that we have something solid. By the time it is time for Community Summit contributor day for WordCamp US we have a solid chance.\n\n\n\nAnd then something came out of nowhere. On the Make WordPress dot org core, blog I saw a post come through. And I’ve been watching posts there all the time and sometimes I’ll provide feedback. But this one was unique. This one was talking about revamping the Admin UI. And now I’m getting all sorts of excited and I’m thinking to myself, oh this is my time.\n\n\n\nLike, if I can get the Admin UI perspective on the Fields API, I think this could even help us further, pushing this forward. Because if you want to approach redoing the Admin UI you have to expose these kinds of fields and forms and screens in a way that is more dynamic than it is right now. And that is a sweet spot for the Fields API.\n\n\n\nSo I posted on that blog post. I asked Matias, hey can we have Fields API? Please, please, please be part of this conversation. I would love to talk to you more about it. And so we’re probably going to talk about it at WordCamp US, some time during that week. And my hope is we’ll get this really pushed further. Because it takes buy in from the vocal people in WordPress. And I think I’m beginning to see more buy in. And that is really a positive thing for me.\n\n\n\n[00:17:12] Nathan Wrigley: Sounds like a really nice bit of serendipity there. Couple of things happened, and the chance of the Admin UI being overhauled kind of sits perfectly doesn’t it. That really would be the moment.\n\n\n\nIt is a dramatic change that’s being proposed. And so I guess if you’re going to go all in on changing the Admin UI, well now would be the time to get all of the fields work done as well.\n\n\n\nIt just occurs to me that given the audience that listen to this podcast, there’s a fair smattering of developers no doubt. But also there’s people who are just into WordPress. You know, it’s a hobby. They perhaps do it as a side gig or something.\n\n\n\nSo maybe we should rewind and do some explanations about what on earth an API for fields would even do. Why is it even needed? I’m suspecting that many people log in to their WordPress website, certainly since the advent of Gutenberg. And more or less everything that they want to do, publish posts, schedule posts, that’s possibly the extent of it all. It functions.\n\n\n\nSo I’m imagining there’s a proportion of people listening to this going, well, what even would this be needed for? Describe a scenario where this would be useful. So, let’s cover that out. What is the Fields API? How would it change what WordPress does?\n\n\n\n[00:18:25] Scott Kingsley Clark: Sure. So let me preface my answer with, there’s a reason why there’s so many plugins out there doing content types and custom fields. There’s a reason why Advanced Custom Fields has millions of active installs. And tons of people have paid for the pro premium versions of these kinds of plugins.\n\n\n\nNow I’ll get into the real answer. This is an incredibly complicated dance. Whenever you want to go add a custom field to a post, or let’s say you’re building a site, a hobby site. I use the book analogy a lot, but let’s talk about music, because I love music too.\n\n\n\nSo you’re setting up a site for your music and maybe you’re an artist, a solo artist or a band. And you’re trying to set up a list of albums. And so you’re like well, how do I add albums? You could add that in the block editor. No problem, no issues there. But then what if you wanted to make it more data oriented.\n\n\n\nSo if you wanted to do that you’d have to go register a custom post type for album, for instance. Maybe a custom post type for tracks, if you want to relate them to albums in some way. And maybe a custom post type for other things. Maybe custom taxonomies for other items that you want. But the challenge there is not really in the content type. It’s in the custom fields you want to add to that.\n\n\n\nInside of WordPress, I counted it up recently, there’s somewhere between 16 to 17 different APIs and hooks that are totally different from each other, to add custom fields or settings to different areas on all the different screens, and different objects inside of WordPress. That is a lot. So adding a custom field means you have to go add an action inside of PHP.\n\n\n\nFirst of all you have to know PHP and kind of know where to put it. Second of all you have to then go add action to add a meta box. Then you have to add your code to render all of your fields markup. So you have to add your HTML in there and have it do that. Then you have to add an action to handle the saving.\n\n\n\nAnd then at that point you’re probably going to be looking at doing more things for taxonomies possibly. So you have to work with another action there. You have to add things there and it doesn’t look great. So then you have to add more markup. And it’s a lot for someone who just wants to build.\n\n\n\nSo you just mentioned that there’s a number of developers listening to this right now. But there’s a lot of people who aren’t really considering themselves developers. They’re just people building sites and they don’t really have time to dig into the code. Or they don’t want to tell their client they can do this if they can’t build it custom, they would have to pay someone else to do that. And they want to avoid that cost. So they’re going to use one of these off the shelf plugins, like Advanced Custom Fields.\n\n\n\nWhy would you spend five hours building your albums and tracks and things like that in PHP? The trial and error and figuring out the markup and, why is this not working? And then coming back to it later on and spending another few hours trying to debug something that happens. And then displaying it all on the front end. Why spend all that time when you can just install a plugin and just click a few buttons? And boom, you have another post type and then you have your fields already displayed. And by the way they look really nice. Why would you spend that time?\n\n\n\nSo this is more of a feature, or more of a project geared towards developers so that it makes them spend less time on their side of things. And it unifies all 16, 17 of these methods and APIs to work with all these different screens.\n\n\n\nBut what the end result would be is anyone using WordPress could then be using a plugin, or potentially use code snippets very easily without having to have a whole lot of knowledge. And be able to add a field to different screens without a whole lot of code, or whole lot of PHP experience. And these types of plugins like ACF, and Pods, and Toolset and various others, they could then leverage the Fields API if they’re supporting that WordPress version that includes it. They could leverage this Fields API in a way that reduces the code that they actually have to have inside their own plugins.\n\n\n\nAnd at the same time that makes it so WordPress itself, the REST APIs, everything that talks with the Fields API, then knows about the structures you’re registering.\n\n\n\nIt’s a hand in hand, win-win scenario for end users who benefit from the stability, and the flexibility, and extensibility of those APIs in place. And developers who want to be able to utilize those things.\n\n\n\n[00:22:54] Nathan Wrigley: Have you any experience with other CMSs? We could probably list off half a dozen or more other CMSs. But certainly some that I have used in the past, a lot of these kind of features are baked into the core product. So the ability to add custom fields to, well it may not be called a custom post type over on that particular platform but you get the idea. It is already built in, if you like.\n\n\n\nYou mentioned that you want to have this pushed to Core. Do you see that other CMSs are potentially stealing a march on WordPress? WordPress has traditionally been very good at giving 80% of the people what they want. So there is some argument as to whether or not some things should be added or some shouldn’t. But do you feel its been lacking this? And really a lot of other rival CMSs have been doing this for years.\n\n\n\n[00:23:42] Scott Kingsley Clark: That’s a very good point. The plugin Pods was one of the first ones that did custom content types and custom fields for WordPress in a way that mimicked, and this is in 2008, the end of 2008. It mimicked Drupal at the time.\n\n\n\nDrupal has a major feature called, what they called CCK, which was Content Construction Kit. I think that was what it was.\n\n\n\nAnd so what value that API had for Drupal was that it would let you do the kinds of things you’re seeing be possible with plugins like Metabox or whatever else, you can use code, and ACF to register your groups and fields, and you can use code to register custom post types.\n\n\n\nSo you don’t have to use the UIs. You don’t have to provide a bunch of JSON. You can just register those things through PHP. And Drupal has had this for many, many years. It’s coming up on almost 20 years now that it’s had a feature like CCK. And that is not really that Drupal is ahead of WordPress, it’s that WordPress is severely behind. Because it hasn’t really prioritized these kinds of unifying APIs for its screens. I mean obviously WordPress hasn’t.\n\n\n\nIf you look at it, it really hasn’t changed a whole lot until block editor. The interfaces and screens really kind of have been what they are. The structure of where things are has been mostly the same outside the block editor.\n\n\n\nMultisite was a big thing, but the screens themselves they really haven’t changed a whole lot. And I think that is just because we’ve been focused as a project on building features and not looking back at what we’ve done, and finding a better way to represent that. A project like the Admin UI revamp, or even accessibility revamp, could give us that time to kind of be introspective. What are we doing with these screens, and how do we make these things better?\n\n\n\nAnd backward compatibility doesn’t have to be a hindrance in the Fields API because it can be backward compatible too. It’s just if you want to register the new way you can do that and that is the officially the way that we recommend you do it. It’s just, it works. I really hope that more people see things like Drupal, and there’s so many other plugins, or so many other CMSs out there that have their own kind of CCK situations.\n\n\n\nBecause it’s just, you’re building a CMS? Well you’re not going to want to do that the way the WordPress did it way back when. No one’s going to want to do that on purpose. And I think that they all already have their own forms and Fields API processing abilities, because that’s the bare minimum. As a developer, when you’re building something like this you build that. You don’t build all the markup and everything hard coded anymore.\n\n\n\n[00:26:24] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah I was a big fan of Drupal, and I used Drupal exclusively more or less for many years. My first interaction with WordPress was an endeavor to move away from Drupal for a variety of different reasons. And I do remember opening up WordPress and almost being incredulous that I couldn’t achieve some of the things that I was simply able to achieve with a vanilla install of Drupal.\n\n\n\nSo custom fields was just trivially easy. It was there, it was baked in. And so I had this expectation, well everybody’s using WordPress it must have, you know, a similar feature set. And so, just flabbergasted that it didn’t exist.\n\n\n\nOf course very quickly found out exactly what you just said. That commercial and also free, there’s plenty of free options as well, Pods being one. That you had to go and find a solution for that. So rather than it being baked into core you’d go out and you’d purchase ACF or you would download Pods or whatever it may be.\n\n\n\nBut this sort of feeling that well that’s interesting because I wonder how they’re doing that and if they’re doing it differently than the other one, so if ACF is doing it differently to how Pods is doing it, you could make that spaghetti go in any direction. How am I going to be stuck in the future? You know things that I create with Pods, is that interoperable? Could I start using ACF at a future date on the same website?\n\n\n\nSo there’s all of that thrown into it as well. And I guess the endeavor here is to create that basic structure so that everybody can approach it and everybody can start creating these things without the reliance necessarily on a third party plugin.\n\n\n\n[00:28:03] Scott Kingsley Clark: Right. Like if you’re using a plugin like that and the Fields API comes out, there could be a migration thing, or exporting plugin created that exports from Pods or ACF or whatever into the Fields API structure. Much like ACF and some of these other plugins have the ability to kind of export. Maybe the biggest one is Custom Post Type UI. Where it’s just simple. Add custom post types, you add custom taxonomies and you can export that to code.\n\n\n\nAnd that code works without the plugin. So it just tells it, here is what you tell WordPress to do what you want to do here. That kind of ability to export into just a Fields API code would take your code, your plugin usage of ACF or Pods or whatever, and you could easily switch out into just pure WordPress.\n\n\n\nBut also because if it has that ability to use the Fields API at that point you have more interoperability. So you can go between these different plugins more easily because there’s a similar structure we’re all using. And when you’re registering through Fields API you can potentially set like a source, like this is coming from ACF, or whatever you want.\n\n\n\nAnd then a Pods plugin could say oh hey I recognize you had these ACF fields, do you want to bring them over? The Fields API opens up the door because everyone’s talking the same talk. And we can all talk about things in the same conversation instead of like I need to know the ACF APIs to work with getting the fields out, and I need to know this and then that. And there’s that side.\n\n\n\nBut there’s also the storage side. So we’re talking about the way that ACF stores their content. For repeatable fields that can be quite tricky. Flexible content, anything that has to do with data that’s not just a simple single value gets a little bit tricky depending on how you choose to store it in ACF.\n\n\n\nSo those sorts of things are more based off of the plugin developers preference. So ACF was developed in a specific kind of point of view, for how they should store the storage. Pods is the same way, we have a specific point of view where it should be stored a certain way. Every plugin will have their own points of view. But if we can settle on the structure of the content fields, the custom fields for each of these objects, and how they’re going to be specified to WordPress, that’s really half the battle.\n\n\n\nThen we can start talking about, okay now that we have this common language let’s work on bringing everyone to the same storage, so anyone can switch between these different plugins and they won’t have to deal with any extra work. We could all agree on a shared set of storage, kind of specification standards really.\n\n\n\n[00:30:35] Nathan Wrigley: The breadth of this project feels like it could be truly enormous because there are fields in all sorts of unexpected places in WordPress. I mean you may not be thinking about them all the time but you know we’ve got post types, and terms, and comments, and settings, and users, and navigation, and the media library and all sorts of different places.\n\n\n\nHow are you breaking it down? Is there an order in which you’re going to knock those dominoes over? Are you going for, I don’t know, probably the low hanging fruit of custom post types first, or is the intention to try and get everything done all at once? You did mention accessibility. Perhaps that’s come first because of Joe Dolson’s interactions with you.\n\n\n\n[00:31:17] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah. So accessibility is going to be the main driving point for us right now. So we’re focused on the Settings API. If we can get this right and potentially the goal is to get it to the point where we can actually merge it just for the Settings API. Just for the Settings API.\n\n\n\nWe have an inside person now, inside of WordPress itself. So now we can start expanding it, and say okay now here’s the proposal to add this to the post types, and to the terms and everywhere else to be powered by the Fields API. And once you have those things powered by the Fields API, the full Admin UI revamp is becoming much more approachable for people who want to switch out the markup there.\n\n\n\nThey don’t have to modify core as much to make it happen. They don’t have to duplicate all the code and deal with merge conflicts. It’s just so much more easier when you’re working with data structures that are defined as data structures, and not purely as markup and save handlers like they are in many areas of WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:32:13] Nathan Wrigley: You’ve been doing this kind of work for years with Pods. So you know you’re incredibly familiar with this. Is there anything during your time working with Pods where you thought, I wish WordPress had this?\n\n\n\nSo I’m just wondering if you might try to smuggle into this some unique new feature, not something which we’re already familiar with. You know post types and comments and users. Really that question might go nowhere but I just wondered if there was something innovative that you’ve got. Really I’d love to try this.\n\n\n\n[00:32:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: So I do have something but it’s going to be interesting to see if we can make it happen. So the way that this has been focused on has been replacing existing screens that are kind of hard coded and all that. But we haven’t really talked about, what about the block editor? What about React and all those things?\n\n\n\nAnd the cool part about that is that if you look at the screen, if you go to the block editor right now, you’re looking at editing a post and you insert a block, like let’s talk about the paragraph block or even a group block. On the right hand side, if you have it open, the inspector control sidebar there. That allows you to control what the block settings are, on margins and adding extra classes if you want to add them to the block.\n\n\n\nAnd many different blocks have many different settings. And then also you can click over and if you’re looking at the post type, or page post type you’ll see the word post or page up there and there’s a little kind of a tab, and you click that and then you are looking at the object controls.\n\n\n\nSo this controls what is going on with the page or post like attributes for the parent, or maybe the date, or the many different things like slug and all that. So both of these areas are areas I would love, not really to sneak in, but I want to get buy in from people. I want to find a way to build these screens, these sets of fields and have them extensible through PHP.\n\n\n\nIf we can do this in a way with the Fields API where you could register new sections and controls inside of React, it’s possible. We’re doing this right now. Pods is doing this, ACF, many other block builders are doing this with their blocks, their own blocks APIs. The way that we’re doing it right now is too much. It’s going down the same road of we’re locking ourselves in.\n\n\n\nI want these sections and these controls to be extensible. I want someone to be able to override stuff. I want someone to be able to add new things to them. I want to add something ahead of it or after it. I don’t want to have to know any JavaScript to be able to do the bare minimum for basic controls.\n\n\n\nYou can still, with the Fields API even, you could still at that point do all the JavaScript or React stuff you want to build up your own custom controls, and the ways that you want them to display, and special handling for how to work with the blocks and all that. But really the bare minimum ought to be the way that we lower the bar towards developers, new people, new developers.\n\n\n\nBut especially at this point, PHP is not getting the love it needs as an API source for WordPress, especially with a block editor. We need to expand that. I think there’s so much potential.\n\n\n\n[00:35:27] Nathan Wrigley: Given everything that you’ve just said, and we’ve now got a real nice full round picture of what it is that you’re trying to achieve, are there any significant roadblocks? I mean obviously hours and coding, the amount of time that it’s going to take you to do all these things, and the amount of people who jump on board the project, that’s a given. Are there any technical obstacles that are in the way that you foresee being problematic?\n\n\n\n[00:35:52] Scott Kingsley Clark: So before, when we built all this stuff in the earlier versions, and I just read, we actually started working on the kind of Fields API idea in 2013. That’s even earlier than I remember. That was back in Freenode, Freenode IRC stuff.\n\n\n\nI think one of the challenges was when we built all the different screens we had to modify WordPress Core files and override them. And as new versions of WordPress would be released we’d have to merge those changes into ours. It’s a headache to keep it up, and keep it updated for every release. And for even maintenance releases to make sure that you’re not breaking something that was changed or fixed inside of WordPress release, and having it so that my prototype should always work with latest WordPress.\n\n\n\nWell that’s difficult because latest WordPress is always changing. I think that’s the challenge is trying to focus not on, like we did before, we had posts, we had terms, we had settings, we had users, we had comments, we had media, we had the customizer. All those different areas were covered.\n\n\n\nWe already had those things covered inside of the Fields API code we had before. You could use the Fields API actively to add things to those screens. But that was a lot. That was a lot to deal with. So if we focus on settings, that’s why I’m hoping this reduced focus on setting screens will reduce the amount of pain we have to deal with. Because when we’re merging things we only have to worry about just those settings screens that we’re overriding for WordPress Core. That’s it. And we don’t have to worry about all the different screens and all the different files that we’ve been overriding.\n\n\n\n[00:37:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah thank you for that. I mean obviously you would be very warmly welcoming anybody who has listened to this and is intrigued by what you’ve said and thinks, okay I’ve got some technical expertise that I could apply to this project. If that’s the case, where are you hanging out most with this? I’m guessing the Slack channel is probably a good place to start. But maybe there’s some other places too.\n\n\n\n[00:37:39] Scott Kingsley Clark: I really deeply would love to have more contributors. Anyone who can think about things in different points of view for how a Fields API should be built. Things like someone who’s involved with other plugins that do this type of thing. It’s a big plus if you’ve built a Fields API yourself for one of these plugins.\n\n\n\nIt’s also a big thing to think about you know just someone who’s not been building those things but maybe someone coming from outside of WordPress, or someone with heavier PHP structure experience. How do we structure the Fields API? And how is that going to look?\n\n\n\nThere’s also plenty of room for people who can help write tutorials, or help us write. I think one of my big deficiencies is having time to write up all the great text that we’re going to need for make.wordpress.org core posts about how do we describe what we’re building here, and get people involved and excited?\n\n\n\nWhat is the proposal going to look like? And how do we lay this out nicely? And those types of things would be also very helpful to have. And you can find all of our efforts inside of Slack right now. So if you go into the WordPress Slack you’ll find us in the core dash fields channel.\n\n\n\nWe also have a GitHub that has been totally revamped from the old ones. We now have two different archive repos from the past versions that we had. And now we have this third repo that we’re using that is refreshed and ready to go. It already has some more research already in it and we’re going to start working from that repo now.\n\n\n\n[00:39:03] Nathan Wrigley: That’s perfect. I will make sure to link to those in the show notes. Everything that you’ve mentioned I’ll make sure that it gets a link. But it sounds like not just technical people. There’s also room for people who have skills in, I don’t know, documentation or something that you’ve described. So the door is wide open. This feels like really important work. It would be lovely to get this over the wire. To get some more buy in, and more thoughts from different community members.\n\n\n\nSo yeah we’ll round it off there. Scott Kingsley Clark. Thank you so much for chatting to me today. I wish you all the best in getting this into Core in the, well, let’s say near future.\n\n\n\n[00:39:35] Scott Kingsley Clark: I really appreciate you including me and this project in your efforts here to get the word out. I can’t say how much I’m excited. I’m just extremely excited to get this finally pushed up and hopefully emerged into Core. And I am working my behind off this entire month, just to make sure that we can try to get that traction and get it across that finish line.\n\n\n\n[00:39:58] Nathan Wrigley: Well very much appreciated, because everything that you do and achieve will certainly make our WordPress lives a lot better. So thank you, Scott. I really appreciate it.\n\n\n\n[00:40:07] Scott Kingsley Clark: No problem.\n\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Scott Kingsley Clark.\n\n\n\nScott is a WordPress developer who has been working with WordPress since 2007. He is well-known for his work on the Pods Framework, a popular content and custom fields plugin. Scott’s goal is to find ways to enhance the WordPress experience, particularly in terms of working with different types of data. He is currently involved in the WordPress Fields API project, which aims to provide a better solution for developers looking to wrangle their data, and that is the focus of the podcast today. As you\u2019ll hear Scott is determined to contribute to the continual growth and improvement of WordPress and try to make the Fields API a reality.\n\n\n\nScott came from a background using Drupal, which is an alternative CMS. When he first ventured into WordPress, he found certain features were lacking. Things which were baked into Drupal Core were not available in WordPress, a notable example being custom fields.\n\n\n\nWe know that WordPress has a myriad of plugins which can take on the burden of creating custom fields, but Scott has concerns about the interoperability of these plugins, and he wants to create a more solid structure within WordPress itself. Wouldn\u2019t it be nice if there were ways for developers to create custom field plugins so that you weren\u2019t locked into one or the other? Scott imagines a future in which you could move from ACF, Metabox, Toolset and more; a future built on top of the Fields API.\n\n\n\nThroughout the conversation, Scott talks about his passion for incorporating the block editor, React, and other technologies into WordPress. He shares insights on controlling block settings, making them extensible through PHP.\n\n\n\nYou might know Scott from his work on the popular Pods Framework plugin. This plugin allows users to create custom content types and fields in WordPress, and certainly speaks to his credentials in trying to push the Fields API project forward.\n\n\n\nWe talk about what the Fields API might become. The aim is to simplify the process of working with custom fields and content types in WordPress. With the Fields API, Scott hopes to unify the different methods and APIs for managing custom fields, making it easier for developers and non-developers alike to add fields to different screens within WordPress. It\u2019s a complicated undertaking and we get into some of the areas of WordPress which might benefit from this work.\n\n\n\nScott sheds light on the challenges faced during the development of Fields API, the need for shared storage standards among plugins, and the potential for better integration with the WordPress Admin UI. \n\n\n\nTowards the end of the podcast we talk about the future of the Fields API project and how gaining support from people in the WordPress community will be crucial to its success.\n\n\n\nIf you\u2019re interested in how WordPress can be used as a fully featured CMS, this podcast is for you.\n\n\n\nUseful links.\n\n\n\nPods Framework\n\n\n\nREST API documentation\n\n\n\nCompare WP – Plugin Comparison – Content Types / Custom Fields\n\n\n\nWordPress Community Summit 2023\n\n\n\nACF\n\n\n\nMeta Box\n\n\n\nToolset\n\n\n\nCustom Post Type UI", "date_published": "2023-09-06T11:10:32-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-06T11:10:34-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Nathan Wrigley", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/nathanwrigley", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/acfb9d9350c8f3c96a93ee8affe232cf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/89-Scott-Kingsley-Clark-on-Why-the-Time-Is-Right-for-the-Fields-API.jpeg", "tags": [ "fields api", "podcast" ], "summary": "On the podcast today we have Scott Kingsley Clark. Scott is a WordPress developer who has been working with WordPress since 2007. He is well-known for his work on the Pods Framework, a popular content and custom fields plugin. He is currently involved in the WordPress Fields API project, which aims to provide a better solution for developers looking to wrangle their data, and that is the focus of the podcast today. As you\u2019ll hear Scott is determined to contribute to the continual growth and improvement of WordPress and try to make the Fields API a reality. We talk about what the Fields API might become. The aim is to simplify the process of working with custom fields and content types in WordPress. With the Fields API, Scott hopes to unify the different methods and APIs for managing custom fields, making it easier for developers and non-developers alike to add fields to different screens within WordPress. It\u2019s a complicated undertaking and we get into some of the areas of WordPress which might benefit from this work.", "attachments": [ { "url": "https://episodes.castos.com/601a97348e9993-63339407/20198061-e0ce-4520-b614-2126f1a2ac5e-89-Scott-Kingsley-Clark-on-Why-the-Time-Is-Right-for-the-Fields-API.mp3", "mime_type": "", "size_in_bytes": 0 } ] }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/?p=148515", "url": "https://wptavern.com/woocommerce-blocks-11-0-0-adds-product-collection-block-in-beta-10-9-0-integrates-product-button-with-the-interactivity-api", "title": "WooCommerce Blocks 11.0.0 Adds Product Collection Block in Beta, 10.9.0 Integrates Product Button with\u00a0the\u00a0Interactivity API", "content_html": "\n

WooCommerce is experimenting with improving the store experience through the addition of the Interactivity API to the WooCommerce Blocks plugin. The new API, which was announced earlier this year, will allow developers to build interactive blocks that support frontend experiences where visitors can interact with content without having to refresh the page. The WordPress contributors working on the API are encouraging developers to test it with their own blocks.

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WooCommerce Blocks 10.9.0, released in mid-August, integrated the Product Button with the Interactivity API to support real-time counter updates for the mini-cart, smoother animations, and better transitions from \u2018Add to Cart\u2019 to \u2018Loading\u2019 status to show the quantity in the cart when a product is added.

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WooCommerce Blocks PR #10006
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The difference is subtle but creates a much smoother shopping experience with nearly instantaneous feedback for the user. Contributors are also exploring how the Interactivity API can be used to improve frontend filters, including the rating, price, stock, and attributes filters. The API will eventually land in Gutenberg and WordPress in the future, but in the meantime WooCommerce is experimenting to see how the plugin’s blocks can benefit from it.

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Version 11.0.0 was released last week introducing the new Product Collection block in beta:

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Like the Products block, you can choose what criteria affect the list of blocks displayed to shoppers and control the product layout in the list/grid by the various element blocks.

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Unlike the Products block, which is a\u00a0Query\u00a0loop block variation, this block is a standalone block, enabling us to tailor the block further to better meet the\u00a0merchant\u2019s needs.

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The Product Collection block is very similar to the Products block from which it was forked, except it is not built as a variation of the Query Loop. It comes with improvements around Inspector controls as compared to the current Products block, as well as a basic set of patterns. The block already has the Interactivity API integrated for the same improved frontend performance.

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Product Collection block – image source: WooCommerce Blocks 11.0.0 release post
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Version 11.0.0 also enables manual migration of Products to Product Collection. An upgrade notice will appear in the Inspector Controls, informing users that they will get more features with the Product Collection block:

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As the Product Collection block is still in beta, WooCommerce Blocks has not yet changed existing templates that have Product blocks. The development team is looking for more feedback on this block before moving it out of beta. Check out the release post for more enhancements and bug fixes.

\n", "content_text": "WooCommerce is experimenting with improving the store experience through the addition of the Interactivity API to the WooCommerce Blocks plugin. The new API, which was announced earlier this year, will allow developers to build interactive blocks that support frontend experiences where visitors can interact with content without having to refresh the page. The WordPress contributors working on the API are encouraging developers to test it with their own blocks.\n\n\n\nWooCommerce Blocks 10.9.0, released in mid-August, integrated the Product Button with the Interactivity API to support real-time counter updates for the mini-cart, smoother animations, and better transitions from \u2018Add to Cart\u2019 to \u2018Loading\u2019 status to show the quantity in the cart when a product is added. \n\n\n\nWooCommerce Blocks PR #10006\n\n\n\nThe difference is subtle but creates a much smoother shopping experience with nearly instantaneous feedback for the user. Contributors are also exploring how the Interactivity API can be used to improve frontend filters, including the rating, price, stock, and attributes filters. The API will eventually land in Gutenberg and WordPress in the future, but in the meantime WooCommerce is experimenting to see how the plugin’s blocks can benefit from it.\n\n\n\nVersion 11.0.0 was released last week introducing the new Product Collection block in beta:\n\n\n\n\nLike the Products block, you can choose what criteria affect the list of blocks displayed to shoppers and control the product layout in the list/grid by the various element blocks.\n\n\n\nUnlike the Products block, which is a\u00a0Query\u00a0loop block variation, this block is a standalone block, enabling us to tailor the block further to better meet the\u00a0merchant\u2019s needs.\n\n\n\n\nThe Product Collection block is very similar to the Products block from which it was forked, except it is not built as a variation of the Query Loop. It comes with improvements around Inspector controls as compared to the current Products block, as well as a basic set of patterns. The block already has the Interactivity API integrated for the same improved frontend performance.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nProduct Collection block – image source: WooCommerce Blocks 11.0.0 release post\n\n\n\nVersion 11.0.0 also enables manual migration of Products to Product Collection. An upgrade notice will appear in the Inspector Controls, informing users that they will get more features with the Product Collection block:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs the Product Collection block is still in beta, WooCommerce Blocks has not yet changed existing templates that have Product blocks. The development team is looking for more feedback on this block before moving it out of beta. Check out the release post for more enhancements and bug fixes.", "date_published": "2023-09-05T23:59:22-04:00", "date_modified": "2023-09-05T23:59:24-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Sarah Gooding", "url": "https://wptavern.com/author/sarah", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d12f506a8f9afba443178608fc9e2232?s=512&d=retro&r=r" }, "image": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/product-collection.webp", "tags": [ "woocommerce", "E-Commerce", "News" ], "attachments": [ { "url": "https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/256799240-f8b16c63-49a7-4448-8553-3c81b8d85844.mp4", "mime_type": "video/mp4", "size_in_bytes": 181393 } ] } ] }