{ "version": "https://jsonfeed.org/version/1.1", "user_comment": "This feed allows you to read the posts from this site in any feed reader that supports the JSON Feed format. To add this feed to your reader, copy the following URL -- https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme/feed/json -- and add it your reader.", "home_page_url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme", "feed_url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme/feed/json", "language": "en-US", "title": "Comments on: Catch FSE Is a Bold, Business-Friendly WordPress Block Theme", "description": "WordPress News \u2014 Free as in Beer.", "icon": "https://149611589.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/cropped-tavern-favicon.png", "items": [ { "id": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-429052", "url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-429052", "content_html": "How does this compare with the likes of Astra and the standard block editor?", "content_text": "How does this compare with the likes of Astra and the standard block editor?", "date_published": "2022-06-29T08:28:34-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Owen H", "url": "https://hortontransport.co.uk/", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/62ac54530dc1fefdaa6c30a29963fb08?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Owen H", "url": "https://hortontransport.co.uk/", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/62ac54530dc1fefdaa6c30a29963fb08?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427384", "url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427384", "content_html": "In reply to Andrew.\n\nBased on my experience (and this is mostly anecdotal from other theme authors), users are more likely to expect their front page to show what the theme shows in its screenshot/demo. \"Recreating the demo\" has long been an issue in the WordPress theme space, particularly with front page designs. Of course, you are aware of this already (just laying out for others who are reading).\n\nI actually do want WordPress to remove the \"show on front\" setting for block themes (there are other settings too). If the long-term goal is to have more of a unified admin, it makes sense that there is only one place to control something like the front page output. Currently, there are two places without a way to see how these work together.\n\nEven in the scenario where the reading settings are followed, users may still need to hop over to the site editor to make adjustments to what's shown on the front. Essentially, WordPress needs to address the user experience around this, but I think it's OK for themes to start forcing the platform's hand on this.\n\nThe site editor is also the promise of Gutenberg from 5 years ago. When trying to bring theme authors on board with blocks, the promise was that we would get to a place where they could just have a front page that was automatically configurable without jumping through all the hoops of the past.\n\nMy alternative recommendation is (and I should have mentioned this in the post) for themes to offer the \"front page\" as a full-page pattern. This will be an even stronger recommendation after 6.0's new page + pattern starting point. This may very well become my go-to response in the future, and it would also solve the other problem:\n\nAs far as content vs. templates go, yes, that is also a issue with building templates in general (also one of the reasons I lean into patterns). At least in the case of the \"typical\" front page, that is often minor content that is likely to be changed based on the theme itself rather than site content. Of course, there are cases on both sides of the spectrum.\n\nThanks for commenting, Andrew. Great food for thought around things that we all need to figure out. It's discussions like these that we need to shape the future of block themes.", "content_text": "In reply to Andrew.\n\nBased on my experience (and this is mostly anecdotal from other theme authors), users are more likely to expect their front page to show what the theme shows in its screenshot/demo. \"Recreating the demo\" has long been an issue in the WordPress theme space, particularly with front page designs. Of course, you are aware of this already (just laying out for others who are reading).\n\nI actually do want WordPress to remove the \"show on front\" setting for block themes (there are other settings too). If the long-term goal is to have more of a unified admin, it makes sense that there is only one place to control something like the front page output. Currently, there are two places without a way to see how these work together.\n\nEven in the scenario where the reading settings are followed, users may still need to hop over to the site editor to make adjustments to what's shown on the front. Essentially, WordPress needs to address the user experience around this, but I think it's OK for themes to start forcing the platform's hand on this.\n\nThe site editor is also the promise of Gutenberg from 5 years ago. When trying to bring theme authors on board with blocks, the promise was that we would get to a place where they could just have a front page that was automatically configurable without jumping through all the hoops of the past.\n\nMy alternative recommendation is (and I should have mentioned this in the post) for themes to offer the \"front page\" as a full-page pattern. This will be an even stronger recommendation after 6.0's new page + pattern starting point. This may very well become my go-to response in the future, and it would also solve the other problem:\n\nAs far as content vs. templates go, yes, that is also a issue with building templates in general (also one of the reasons I lean into patterns). At least in the case of the \"typical\" front page, that is often minor content that is likely to be changed based on the theme itself rather than site content. Of course, there are cases on both sides of the spectrum.\n\nThanks for commenting, Andrew. Great food for thought around things that we all need to figure out. It's discussions like these that we need to shape the future of block themes.", "date_published": "2022-05-11T12:25:26-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Justin Tadlock", "url": "http://justintadlock.com", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ef3c3b5b99e08a712d5ef92ec9350609?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Justin Tadlock", "url": "http://justintadlock.com", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ef3c3b5b99e08a712d5ef92ec9350609?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427383", "url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427383", "content_html": "The issue with a front-page.html template is that it does not respect the default \"Your homepage displays: Your latest posts\" setting in Settings > Reading.\n\nIt's true that in the classic era, themes (submitted to .org) did need to respect the Reading Settings, and yes it's possible that theme authors have become conditioned* into this way of thinking, but it can be super confusing for users when the homepage does not display the latest posts if this is what they expect.\nMaybe the default to latest posts and the page_on_front and page_for_posts options should be removed/disregarded when a block theme is active?\n\n*How can I be sure that what I am saying and my reluctance to include a front-page.html template is 100% my own thought or whether there is some conditioning at play here?? At this point how do I know the difference?\n\nRecently another theme author asked my opinion on this very subject. My advice was basically the exact opposite to what you are saying in this article Justin, but over the past couple of weeks I have been giving it some thought and I'm not opposed to change my thinking if the legacy issues could be made less confusing.\nThere's also the issue of content directly in the template. Surely a template is a template and not itself the content?", "content_text": "The issue with a front-page.html template is that it does not respect the default \"Your homepage displays: Your latest posts\" setting in Settings > Reading.\n\nIt's true that in the classic era, themes (submitted to .org) did need to respect the Reading Settings, and yes it's possible that theme authors have become conditioned* into this way of thinking, but it can be super confusing for users when the homepage does not display the latest posts if this is what they expect.\nMaybe the default to latest posts and the page_on_front and page_for_posts options should be removed/disregarded when a block theme is active?\n\n*How can I be sure that what I am saying and my reluctance to include a front-page.html template is 100% my own thought or whether there is some conditioning at play here?? At this point how do I know the difference?\n\nRecently another theme author asked my opinion on this very subject. My advice was basically the exact opposite to what you are saying in this article Justin, but over the past couple of weeks I have been giving it some thought and I'm not opposed to change my thinking if the legacy issues could be made less confusing.\nThere's also the issue of content directly in the template. Surely a template is a template and not itself the content?", "date_published": "2022-05-11T11:35:10-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Andrew", "url": "https://uxlthemes.com", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3f75c6569a1ebd54cb74a7d8a64c8edf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Andrew", "url": "https://uxlthemes.com", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3f75c6569a1ebd54cb74a7d8a64c8edf?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427382", "url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427382", "content_html": "In reply to Milos.\n\nHi, Milos. Thanks for commenting and leaving valuable feedback. You are right that these issues are mostly unrelated to the theme itself. Most sound like they are more specific to full-site editing features in WordPress.\n\nBefore diving into the specifics, I also highly recommend checking out Learn WordPress. This workshop on the page vs. site editor may be helpful.\n\n
\n First, if I select \u201cFrontPage Template\u201d, whatever I enter on the page is not displayed.\n
\n\nThis is how page templates have worked with both classic and block themes. It is actually one of the longstanding problems I have had with the page template system---there's no way to communicate to the user whether the template supports displaying the page content.\n\nHowever, I think there's an opportunity with blocks, which are built on a standardized system, for WordPress to show a message to the user if the Post Content block is not used in the template. I'll look into drafting a ticket to see how this might be improved in WordPress.\n\n
\n Then I figured out that I should click the small \u201cEdit\u201d link to edit the template itself.\n
\n\nYes, this multi-step process is what I briefly described in the post as problematic. I would have rather seen the theme use WordPress's built-in front-page.html template support instead. That way, there would be only one place to make edits.\n\n
\n Second, when I try to add a pattern, many patterns that are not part of this theme as displayed as \u201cFeatured\u201d. The use of some of them leads to various problems (white text on white background, etc.). Don\u2019t you think, by default, there should be the theme\u2019s patterns displayed first?\n
\n\nThe \"Featured\" category comes from WordPress itself rather than the theme. It's possible for themes to manipulate this and only show their own. The theme does have a \"Catch FSE\" category that lists all of its patterns.\n\nI do think this is an important point about the default user experience. In my mind, I want that first featured category to show theme-specific patterns rather than those from WordPress.org.\n\n
\n Last but not least, when I create a regular page (with a Default template), I found it difficult to remove the big header (with page name). Again, I released I have to edit the template.\n
\n\nYou should be able to edit the page template from Appearance > Site Editor too. I personally find this easier to work from than the template editor while editing a post.\n\n
\n Maybe there should be a template similar to Default but without a big header.\n
\n\nThat sounds like a reasonable feature request from the theme author. I'll ping their team to let them know.", "content_text": "In reply to Milos.\n\nHi, Milos. Thanks for commenting and leaving valuable feedback. You are right that these issues are mostly unrelated to the theme itself. Most sound like they are more specific to full-site editing features in WordPress.\n\nBefore diving into the specifics, I also highly recommend checking out Learn WordPress. This workshop on the page vs. site editor may be helpful.\n\n\n First, if I select \u201cFrontPage Template\u201d, whatever I enter on the page is not displayed.\n\n\nThis is how page templates have worked with both classic and block themes. It is actually one of the longstanding problems I have had with the page template system---there's no way to communicate to the user whether the template supports displaying the page content.\n\nHowever, I think there's an opportunity with blocks, which are built on a standardized system, for WordPress to show a message to the user if the Post Content block is not used in the template. I'll look into drafting a ticket to see how this might be improved in WordPress.\n\n\n Then I figured out that I should click the small \u201cEdit\u201d link to edit the template itself.\n\n\nYes, this multi-step process is what I briefly described in the post as problematic. I would have rather seen the theme use WordPress's built-in front-page.html template support instead. That way, there would be only one place to make edits.\n\n\n Second, when I try to add a pattern, many patterns that are not part of this theme as displayed as \u201cFeatured\u201d. The use of some of them leads to various problems (white text on white background, etc.). Don\u2019t you think, by default, there should be the theme\u2019s patterns displayed first?\n\n\nThe \"Featured\" category comes from WordPress itself rather than the theme. It's possible for themes to manipulate this and only show their own. The theme does have a \"Catch FSE\" category that lists all of its patterns.\n\nI do think this is an important point about the default user experience. In my mind, I want that first featured category to show theme-specific patterns rather than those from WordPress.org.\n\n\n Last but not least, when I create a regular page (with a Default template), I found it difficult to remove the big header (with page name). Again, I released I have to edit the template.\n\n\nYou should be able to edit the page template from Appearance > Site Editor too. I personally find this easier to work from than the template editor while editing a post.\n\n\n Maybe there should be a template similar to Default but without a big header.\n\n\nThat sounds like a reasonable feature request from the theme author. I'll ping their team to let them know.", "date_published": "2022-05-11T10:14:50-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Justin Tadlock", "url": "http://justintadlock.com", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ef3c3b5b99e08a712d5ef92ec9350609?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Justin Tadlock", "url": "http://justintadlock.com", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ef3c3b5b99e08a712d5ef92ec9350609?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } }, { "id": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427376", "url": "https://wptavern.com/catch-fse-is-a-bold-business-friendly-wordpress-block-theme#comment-427376", "content_html": "Hi,\n\nNice theme. I found some issues though that are maybe not related to this theme.\n\nFirst, if I select \"FrontPage Template\", whatever I enter on the page is not displayed. Then I figured out that I should click the small \"Edit\" link to edit the template itself.\n\nSecond, when I try to add a pattern, many patterns that are not part of this theme as displayed as \"Featured\". The use of some of them leads to various problems (white text on white background, etc.). Don't you think, by default, there should be the theme's patterns displayed first?\n\nLast but not least, when I create a regular page (with a Default template), I found it difficult to remove the big header (with page name). Again, I released I have to edit the template. Maybe there should be a template similar to Default but without a big header.\n\nI am writing this as someone who is new to FSE and block themes. I am a long time in development so I figured out how to fix the issues above. However, it's won't be easy for less experienced users and our clients who want to maintain websites themselves.\n\nKeep up the good work.\n\nBest,\nMilos", "content_text": "Hi,\n\nNice theme. I found some issues though that are maybe not related to this theme.\n\nFirst, if I select \"FrontPage Template\", whatever I enter on the page is not displayed. Then I figured out that I should click the small \"Edit\" link to edit the template itself.\n\nSecond, when I try to add a pattern, many patterns that are not part of this theme as displayed as \"Featured\". The use of some of them leads to various problems (white text on white background, etc.). Don't you think, by default, there should be the theme's patterns displayed first?\n\nLast but not least, when I create a regular page (with a Default template), I found it difficult to remove the big header (with page name). Again, I released I have to edit the template. Maybe there should be a template similar to Default but without a big header.\n\nI am writing this as someone who is new to FSE and block themes. I am a long time in development so I figured out how to fix the issues above. However, it's won't be easy for less experienced users and our clients who want to maintain websites themselves.\n\nKeep up the good work.\n\nBest,\nMilos", "date_published": "2022-05-11T07:08:39-04:00", "authors": [ { "name": "Milos", "url": "https://hot-themes.com/", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9d006c1667ee55fe0c4f49c62565dfff?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } ], "author": { "name": "Milos", "url": "https://hot-themes.com/", "avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9d006c1667ee55fe0c4f49c62565dfff?s=512&d=retro&r=r" } } ] }